Insuring your bike for track days.

[Fishy]

I still have the emails from Star if you want me to forward them to you Alan? I pretty much just copied and pasted the emails and posted them in my previous post.

Bit sad eh, I was really wanting to get out and have a play on the track but, no insurance for me

Star Insurance are great to deal with and would highly recommend them to others, I just wish they offered track cover for casual track days.

[Fishy]

to all you bunnies insured with Star,

I am awaiting final confirmation that Frosty Track Days will be covered, they are going to Lumleys to get final sign off on this so i can have something in writing to pass along to you all.

Basically, Pukekohe track days and open days are not covered. If you are under the formal instruction of a qualified instructer then yes... Frosty Trackdays should be ok

Thanks Rach,

Is Frosty a qualified instructor?

[R6_kid:Me]

the only 'qualified' instructors that i know of for bikes are the guys that test you for your licence. Then there is the riderskills guy who i would assume you could call 'qualified' as thats what he does for a job. But on that note, if you were on the track with a racer giving you tips (loosebruce, shaun harris etc) then would you say they are qualified?

They are the top few % of racers in NZ and therefore are 'far better' than you, does this qualify them to be called instructors or are they simply giving out tips?

On the side of liability re crashing, I would think that you would take responsibility (as hard as that may be) for any accident you are in if you are insured. That is if you get taken out then you say it was your fault so insurance only chases you. As said before the only rules at a track day are generally passing rules, and normally to line up a pass (you can pass on the inside into corners generally) you need to get close under brakes, then pin it around one side on the exit - this would be considered dangerous driving on the road (or following too close) but on the track it is common practice and considered a 'norm'.

[McJim]

I'm just gonna try not to crash - as a noob I will be in the slow group and I won't be pushing it - safer that way. I can't afford to wreck the bike as the only way I can get it back to Auckland is by riding it.

[Drunken Monkey]

The question was addressed in this thread from post 16.

Basically, those of us on race bikes are screwed if we cause damage too an insured bike at a track day.

SUBROGATION you know!

No - please stop spreading misinformation. You have either not read the thread in it's entirety or you still fail to understand it. Please re-read and take special note of the comment made by Frosty in post #31

FOR EVERYONE'S RECORD:

"The indemnety form waives your right to sue other riders and the organiser/track owner and their representatives. "

[Drunken Monkey]

...

I am awaiting final confirmation that Frosty Track Days will be covered, they are going to Lumleys to get final sign off on this so i can have something in writing to pass along to you all.

...

The intention of Insurance is to cover you if you are on a specific training course not to have a blat around Pukekohe..

...

Cibby

Cibby, are the insurers you have contacted fully aware of the indemnity form that each rider must sign to participate in the track day? As mentioned above, each rider will be waiving their right to sue other riders and/or the organisers. As you know, if an insurance company is unable to recover its costs from the 3rd party, it is unlikely to pay out (standard insurance clause, but please read your specific agreement).

[JT.]

No - please stop spreading misinformation. You have either not read the thread in it's entirety or you still fail to understand it. Please re-read and take special note of the comment made by Frosty in post #31

FOR EVERYONE'S RECORD:

"The indemnety form waives your right to sue other riders and the organiser/track owner and their representatives. "

Sure it waives my rights, but how does this waive my insurance companies right to sue an uninsuired rider?

More importantly, if it does, they will not pay out as you signed something on their behalf. Your policy is not worth the paper it's written on if you do this.

[Racey Rider]

Heres the deal plain and simple.
If you want to go on the track then you sighn the indemnety form.
The indemnety form waives your right to sue other riders and the organiser/track owner and their representatives.
In a nutshell if ya bin then you claim on your own insurance.
You must follow the rules outlined by the trackday organiser.

OK DM, I re-read it. But still need to asked the question.

Can a Insurance Rep, define, whether signing a track day indemnity to waive your rights to sue other riders also means Their Insurance company won't be able to claim back damages from another party?

[Cibby]

Cibby, are the insurers you have contacted fully aware of the indemnity form that each rider must sign to participate in the track day? As mentioned above, each rider will be waiving their right to sue other riders and/or the organisers. As you know, if an insurance company is unable to recover its costs from the 3rd party, it is unlikely to pay out (standard insurance clause, but please read your specific agreement).

no.. they have no idea... good point for bring that up..

It says in the policy wording that

" It the company covers the insured for any loss or liability it shall be entitled to instigate, take over, or defend any legal proceedings in teh name of the insured including any claim, or counter claim and shall have full discretion to conduct or settle such proceedings"

This may mean that you cant sign frosty's form which means you cant ride.. I dont think you are allowed to sign away the insurers "Subrogation" rights..

I'll check... Please hold

*Insert bad hold music here*

[Postie]

Sure it waives my rights, but how does this waive my insurance companies right to sue an uninsuired rider?

More importantly, if it does, they will not pay out as you signed something on their behalf. Your policy is not worth the paper it's written on if you do this.

Exactly, if the insurance company knows you are going to sign a form to waiver the insurance companies position to recover cost from an at fault 3rd party, you will find your self with no cover what so ever. Insurance companies have recovery/collection departments specialised in doing just that. If your insurance company did pay you out, they would still chase the 3rd party for dollars. The only way the insurance companies would cover you, is if they agreed to that waiver. Good luck with that.
In saying that, you would have a case if you showed the ins company the waiver signed by you and the 3rd party, but chances are, they would then try to recover from you, they may not be sucessful but you will be stuck in a very time consuming legal bind.

[Drunken Monkey]

Sure it waives my rights, but how does this waive my insurance companies right to sue an uninsuired rider?.

Your insurance company sues other parties on your behalf, they are not acting as an independant agent. If you waive your right, you have effectively waived your insurance companies right as well.

More importantly, if it does, they will not pay out as you signed something on their behalf. Your policy is not worth the paper it's written on if you do this.

That's why you must read your policy and abide by its terms and conditions.

[Drunken Monkey]

Can a Insurance Rep, define, whether signing a track day indemnity to waive your rights to sue other riders also means Their Insurance company won't be able to claim back damages from another party?

Whilst I don't work in insurance anymore, I used to work as a loss adjuster/assessor. I am making my comments from an informed position, although ultimately you should read and understand your specific policy.

[Cibby]

Whilst I don't work in insurance anymore, I used to work as a loss adjuster/assessor. I am making my comments from an informed position, although ultimately you should read and understand your specific policy.

10 points to drunken monkey, it is true, policy wording are were you need to go and if that isnt enough, WRITTEN confirmation from your insurer.

[Qkchk:Me]

I hope this gets sorted out smartly as I dont intend to jepordise my bike on a trackday if I have no cover. It's not my riding Im worried about, but someone else taking me out.

[Karma]

surely wouldn't logic dictate that if you cause the accident you should front up for it?

If it was found that I caused an accident, I'd be more than happy for the damage to be claimed from my insurance, but I'd expect to be able to claim if it was the other way around.

From what I saw on the last trackday, there wasn't anyone taking anyone else out, it isn't a race after all, and if you're close enough to take someone out then you shouldn't be out there.