Legalise the herb

[onearmedbandit]

I would say its the latter, from my own experience anyway. I suppose you could group my circle of friends into smokers and non-smokers as well. All of these people hold down full time jobs, a lot own their own homes (ages 20-45), some have families. The interesting part regarding the smokers within our group, we are all daily users of marijuana, yet we are productive.

However, the loser who would rather not commit him/herself to work instead relying off state welfare will probably find themselves attracted to bud, something to kill the boredome of doing nothing all day.

I feel qualified to comment on this, as I have been a non-smoker, am now and have been for a good number of years a daily smoker (I wont say how much but enough), have flatted with unmotivated unemployed people who I never thought would touch the stuff turn into overnight abusers, and have held fulltime employment (other than after acc pulled me out of my job after the accident) for the last 12yrs. I have travelled to Oz once and Japan twice, touring around most of western and southern Japan, travelled up and down this fine country of ours. I've set goals and achieved them, always in the cloud of some good smoke. (err, except travel overseas, that would be farken stupid.)

Don't judge the smoke, judge the smoker.
Don't judge the drink, judge the drinker.

[Slingshot]

Drugs are bad...because if you do drugs, you're a hippy...and hippys suck!

[moko]

.

As a cop dealing with an offender it would make no difference whatsoever to me whether a person was stoned or drunk. If they need to be taken into custody they will be considered a risk until the bracelets go on. People under the influence of any drug can be highly unpredictable. I learnt long ago not to assume that a person isn't effected by drugs or is capable of being an extreme risk to my safety. I treat everyone the same until such time as I know otherwise or they are safely in custody.

Dope dosnt have the same effect on everybody,my ex-brother in law used to get violent and very,very vicious after smoking and more than one murderer has been convicted after killing someone in a dope-fuelled rage.Unusual i know but I`m sure you all know that different people react differently.
In the U.K. you can get dope anywhere,it`s as hard as asking around any pub,it`s been all but decriminalised here.BUT only today there`s been a report that scientists have found pretty conclusive evidence that weed CAN lead to serious mental illness.As I posted earlier most of the hardcore dopers I know are nervy,apathetic people,one is a registered Schizophrenic but will deny that dope has anything to do with their condition.Because of this the Govt here is coming under heavy pressure to re-categorise Cannibis.
As far as I`m concerned I agree with Paul,as usual it`s down to the individual to be responsible for their own actions.Sadly the evidence is all around,more so in the U.k.,that they aren`t capable of this.Unless you`ve seen it then you may find it hard to envisage but City and town centres up and down Britain are like war-zones at the weekend,you take your life in your hands picking your way through brawling gangs and broken glass.In moderation alcohol is great,in Britain`s"the more you drink the cooler you are" drunken idiots run riot.no doubt you`ve sen the soccer fans on t.v.,well forget the soccer bit,that`s the way they behave out on the booze all over the country.

[spudchucka]

Dope dosnt have the same effect on everybody,

Thats exactly why I posted the message that you just quoted back.

[NC]

What was the thread about again?

[Sniper]

Seems to be about weeds man. I hate them, takes so long to dig out of the garden.

[NC]

Seems to be about weeds man. I hate them, takes so long to dig out of the garden.

Your right, I hate weedy men too.

Eww so creepy!

[Sniper]

Your right, I hate weedy men too.

Eww so creepy!

For some unknown reason, the first thing I thought of when I read that was the creepy thin man off Charlies angels.

Not that I have watched the movie, just have been told, umm, yea told. Shit!

[NC]

For some unknown reason, the first thing I thought of when I read that was the creepy thin man off Charlies angels.

Not that I have watched the movie, just have been told, umm, yea told. Shit!

LOL Charlies Angles is a kewl movie
Ew he is sooo creepy! *shudders*He's so stick figure I could rip his arm off and beat him to death with it...
Even play with the tendons so it looks like he's ripping the fingers...

[Sniper]

LOL Charlies Angles is a kewl movie
Ew he is sooo creepy! *shudders*He's so stick figure I could rip his arm off and beat him to death with it...
Even play with the tendons so it looks like he's ripping the fingers...

That is very sad and very sick. I hope never to end up on the wrong side of you NC. You are my friend right??

[El Dopa]

Dope dosnt have the same effect on everybody,my ex-brother in law used to get violent and very,very vicious after smoking and more than one murderer has been convicted after killing someone in a dope-fuelled rage.Unusual i know but I`m sure you all know that different people react differently.
In the U.K. you can get dope anywhere,it`s as hard as asking around any pub,it`s been all but decriminalised here.BUT only today there`s been a report that scientists have found pretty conclusive evidence that weed CAN lead to serious mental illness.As I posted earlier most of the hardcore dopers I know are nervy,apathetic people,one is a registered Schizophrenic but will deny that dope has anything to do with their condition.Because of this the Govt here is coming under heavy pressure to re-categorise Cannibis.
As far as I`m concerned I agree with Paul,as usual it`s down to the individual to be responsible for their own actions.Sadly the evidence is all around,more so in the U.k.,that they aren`t capable of this.Unless you`ve seen it then you may find it hard to envisage but City and town centres up and down Britain are like war-zones at the weekend,you take your life in your hands picking your way through brawling gangs and broken glass.In moderation alcohol is great,in Britain`s"the more you drink the cooler you are" drunken idiots run riot.no doubt you`ve sen the soccer fans on t.v.,well forget the soccer bit,that`s the way they behave out on the booze all over the country.

I'd tend to agree. Most people I knew who smoked used to treat it as if it were harmless. 'Hey, man, The Man is lying to you about the effects of drugs to keep you living in fear. It's cool, have a smoke.' Well, the governmet(s) may indeed be over-reacting to the evils of the weed, but that doesn't make it harmless. You'd have difficulty holding down a job and keeping your life on track if the first thing you did every morning was knock back a triple brandy. Likewise if you're skinning up before you're even out of bed 'just to take the edge off the day' then you've got a problem. Most of the people I knew didn't seem to be able to make that connection though, bcause they all knew weed was harmless and te government was wrong.

What I object to is the occasional or weekend smoker, who is well aware of the effects and the risks, and who is in all other respects a law-abiding, productive member of society, being criminalised and running the risk of having it all come down around their ears if they are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Certainly there are poeple who shoudn't smoke, for mental health reasons, and people who have turned their brains to quiche though smoking too much.

But there are almost certainly just as many people who shouldn't drink, at all, and people who have slid into a drinking problem through bozing culture, stress or whatever.

The question is: where do you draw the line(s)? in order to stop the sort of behaviour Moko has described? Where do governmental/police controls start impinging unreasonably on the rights of the individual to do what they want?

For this particular situation, I think the line is in the wrong place.

[Blakamin]

My nephew is a bi-polar paranoid shcitzoprhenic with and addiction to dope... not long ago he tried to kill my sister... only takes dope, dont drink, dont touch "P"... he wasnt diagnosed until after smoking for about 4 years....

my brother dealt weed for 10 years.. only job he had.. in 1993 he "discovered" heroin.... he's been a addict ever since.... I tried to help him by giving him a roof when he got out of jail... they only released him coz I owned my house... that little experiment cost me my house, my job, my friends and a fair bit of my sanity for a while....

My cousin is addicted to weed too... as he has one leg he cant go score himself and his connection has changed islands... he went nuts at me last week coz I wont score for him...

I've never been an angel... I've had my problems too and weirdly, dope wasnt one of them... (puts me to sleep)

I dont think it should be decriminalised... nothing changes...
it still causes violence (between dealers, customers and couples)
it causes accidents (best mates brother in Aus got stoned, fell asleep and killed someone)
and it stresses out families that cant afford it....

btw, have also seen heroin and coke addicts hold down high paying jobs (owning BMW's etc in melbourne). It wont last forever tho....

[avgas]

As a ex-dope smoker/grower, i say legalize it. But i think that the shit is bad - so why legalize it?
a) Growers, gangs, dealers etc form power by it being illegal - its the classical economics curve, except in this case since market forces have labelled it illegal, driving the price insanely high, and pushing the market underground where it cannot be controlled. By making it legal, its becomes the same as Cigs and party pills, both cheaper, and less craved for.
b) The only reason it isnt legal is because the government loses money, the cant collect ciggy tax off it, only GST.
c) By making it legal, there will be nothing 'cool' about dope smoking, as this was the lead that sucked me in. It will be consider the same as smoking, shunned by society - and you will be sent outside the pub.

As for making it medicinal, thats bullshit - yes it does work, but the addictive content makes it not worth it. If you really want your body natural, you would build your own tollerance to pain, and take less addictive forms of natural pain killers (yes they do exist - im on them now, and they fucken work). Ive seen too many ACC benificeries using their pain as an excuse to smoke dope - this is bullshit, they are addicted. Come on guys, have some pride in yourself and work towards something, pain is only the way the world tells you that your goal is great, without it you will never succceed.

I mean if you got knocked off you bike, you wouldnt be scared shittless for the rest of you life, you would get your wits together and get back into it.
Same with life.

At the end of the day i think it should be legal, as its peoples choice to fuck up their own life (i mean they can choose to commit suicide if they want).
But if you want to be successful, you wont go near any negatives (smoking dope, smoking cigs, P.....whatever), as these are the vexations of the spirit.

[inlinefour]

My nephew is a bi-polar paranoid shcitzoprhenic with and addiction to dope... not long ago he tried to kill my sister... only takes dope, dont drink, dont touch "P"... he wasnt diagnosed until after smoking for about 4 years....

my brother dealt weed for 10 years.. only job he had.. in 1993 he "discovered" heroin.... he's been a addict ever since.... I tried to help him by giving him a roof when he got out of jail... they only released him coz I owned my house... that little experiment cost me my house, my job, my friends and a fair bit of my sanity for a while....

My cousin is addicted to weed too... as he has one leg he cant go score himself and his connection has changed islands... he went nuts at me last week coz I wont score for him...

I've never been an angel... I've had my problems too and weirdly, dope wasnt one of them... (puts me to sleep)

I dont think it should be decriminalised... nothing changes...
it still causes violence (between dealers, customers and couples)
it causes accidents (best mates brother in Aus got stoned, fell asleep and killed someone)
and it stresses out families that cant afford it....

btw, have also seen heroin and coke addicts hold down high paying jobs (owning BMW's etc in melbourne). It wont last forever tho....

Personally I'm not angel either and have not touched the stuff for over a decade now. I tell you that if I knew half of what I know now, then I would have never touched the stuff. The facts are:
If an individual has the genetic link of any type of thought disorder, then using cannabis is only going to make it worse (the more used the worse it'll get). If someone who does not have the genetic link and somes enough of it, they can become psychotic also. There are more health disadvantages by far than any percieved or actual health benefits from using cannabis.
Now at the risk of getting in more hot water (and you cannot bad rep me at present) I think that only an ignorant individual would want to legalise or decrimalise cannabis. Only a person who is thinking of their own wants would be that low and arrogant. Personally I think that the penalties should be increased (as in any unlawfull act) as to make it undesirable to repeat the action. I would go as far as to say that the Police, in my opinion should continue with their spraying program that NORML is getting so upset with. In that way a deterrant can continue and if your dumb enough to get sick, so be it.
Now, as far as the concept of pain relief and medical use. I don't have a problem with that. However once agin suspect that there will be plenty of individuals that wish to abuse this right, thus making it pointless to persue the option. IF, it was to happen, it would not be the "smoking" kind, but actually in capsule form to swallow. Many of users I suspect would be unimpressed with that and want to smake the contents of the capsule, thus ruining it for all others.
Now for the Netherlands, who have allowed cannabis use with rather loose laws covering the subject. They are and do admit that the whole concept has been less than successfull, with a major hard drug problem as a result. I have even heard of the government wanting to take a reversal in policy and again outlaw the use of cannabis. However so far, they have been unsuccessfull with that attempt, but are still trying.
The problem with this debate that there is much information regarding cannabis, unfortunately alot is not credible as those who what cannabis create their own research to reinforce their opinion. Drug companies have been doing this for along time and the concept is not new. The actual health benefits are there, but the actual amount of cannabis needed is very small per day and would be far less that satisfactory to a regular user along with being the wrong method (i.e. swallowing Vs smoking). It becomes a unhealthy act, using cannabis in larger proportions. I suspect that if I was given one dollar for every service user who has become unwell and presented to the Mental Health Services on each occasion stating that they have been using cannabis (yes there is other factors for their relapse) I would not have long before I could go and pick up a new 2005 CBR1000RR and not that long before I could start buying them for others.
Everyone who does want cannabis legalised or decriminalised, ask yourself why. is it just for your own wants or is it for the better of society. If you choose the latter then please explain why it would be.

[moko]

.
By making it legal, there will be nothing 'cool' about dope smoking, as this was the lead that sucked me in. It will be consider the same as smoking, shunned by society - and you will be sent outside the pub.

That`s an interesting point.Dont know if it`s recieved as much publicity in N.Z. as here but recently smoking in public places has been banned in Ireland,and a couple of British cities are pushing it through ahead of it going national in a few years.All the years of health scares,Government aided anti-smoking programs e.t.c. have never worked.Make it un-cool(and even many smokers were for this legislation)and socially un-acceptable,in public at least,and cig sales have nose-dived in a few months.Probably start a whole new agrument here but cig smokers seem to be those who follow the herd,go into a place where a few are smoking and lemming-like they light up as well.go into a place where no-one is and many wont feel the urge to either.I had this stupid idea a while back when someone was commenting on the number of school-kids hiding around corners and smoking during the school lunch break here.All they`ve got to do is make it law that fags should be pink with daisies printed on them and suddenly they`re not so cool and macho.Same reasoning petty criminals should get the choice of a jail sentence or freedom.......with compulsory wearing of a pink tracksuit with "moron" printed across it for a defined period,cut out the macho image of something and it`ll lose a lot of it`s appeal,especially to the young.