Legalise the herb

[jrandom]

This is a bit tangential, but did you know that most of the major 'baccy companies have already registered trademarks (and presumably done a lot of R&D work behind the scenes) in preparation for the day that some country, somewhere, legalises weed?

I don't remember any of the product names, but they were quite catchy and appropriate.

If New Zealand or Canada or the USA or who-knows-else ever *legalises* marijuana, it'll hit store shelves beside the tobacco products, alongside carefully-prepared marketing campaigns, within the month. Don't imagine that it would stay as a cute little backyard industry.

Back to the question, though - I agree with Spud. I've seen people with fried brains and clapped-out lives that can partially be attributed to dope. Smoking the stuff just doesn't do you *any* good at all, in the long term. There's no good reason to legalise it.

Please, nobody bring up the tired old 'alcohol is just as ...' crap. Alcohol can be used moderately without ill effect. It *has* been shown to confer health benefits. Should we ban petrol because it kills brain cells when idiots sniff it from a plastic bag? Nope - it's too useful. Ditto for booze.

The jury is still out on proper proof of the effects of dope, but I think we all know what the verdict should be...

[MikeL]

Now, I look at my kids and wonder how I am going to feel when they try drugs (which they will, of course). My parents never told me anything about drugs so I had to try as many as I could. Why should my kids be any different? So I will try and educate my kids about drugs as much as possible and hope that they will make a responsible decision about them.

There is no sure way to prevent your children from suffering the consequences of drug abuse. What you have described above is a sensible attitude. I would add that it doesn't help to over-dramatize. To rant and rave is always counter-productive, but if you start using labels like "junkie" or predict imminent death from heroin overdose just because your son or daughter has been smoking a bit of pot you lose all credibility.

Note that I used the word "abuse" above. I think there is drug "use" and there is drug "abuse". Where one turns into the other is of course (like many other things!) an arbitrary judgement. I tend to think that some drugs used appropriately can be life-enhancing. The fact that they may have adverse physical or psychological effects is not in itself an argument for banning them.
We do not need to be protected from ourselves. On the other hand there is no doubt that much social misfortune results from the abuse of drugs, so that society has the right to regulate them for the protection of all. Unfortunately when it comes to deciding the level and form of that regulation, logic, reason and scientific fact become hopelessly entangled with emotion, fantasy and political expediency. On the scientific evidence it is impossible to justify criminalizing marijuana use while allowing alcohol and tobacco to be sold freely. Possession of dope for personal use should long ago have been decriminalized. The fact that it has not testifies to the ongoing immaturity of political and social debate in this country, and the degree of hypocrisy and self-interest among our parliamentarians. But then, why is anyone surprised? Consider how long we waited for homosexual law reform, legalization of prostitution, civil union legislation... Not to mention 10 o'clock closing (anyone remember that??)

[Hitcher]

There, I've said it and it wasn't that hard... "I agree with Jackrat!" [Birds fall from the skies, crust of ice forms over Hell]

[Jackrat]

Alcohol, tobbacco, 'the weed.' All three are drugs.

Skyryder

Yeah,but that's not what I ment.
I drink but I don't allow myself to become drunk,I really dislike the Feeling,to the extent were Iv'e practicly given it up all togeather.With weed the whole point is to get stoned.One you can use with out any noticable affects and the other you wouldn't use if you didn't get an affect,so to me they are nothing like one another.
I can't see the logic in legalising one thing just because another thing better or worse is already legal,but that is the logic that the people on this other site were useing.

[MikeL]

JR, just read your post after writing mine. You make some good points about legalizing pot - the commercial exploitation would be a real worry. I agree that smoking pot is unlikely to do most people much good (some medicinal exceptions, perhaps) and if we move down the track of banning both tobacco and marijuana I certainly wouldn't mourn the loss of either.

However your comparison with alcohol, while relevant to some extent, does not tell the whole story. I would like to know, for example, what Spud's view of the relative social dangers of alcohol and pot are. I have a feeling that a cop would rather deal with a spaced out dopehead than an aggressive drunk...

And I also suspect that in the chain of cause and event leading to fried brains and clapped out lives, poor parenting is the real culprit: the drug is in some ways the solution and not the cause.

[Jackrat]

I'm sure the government would legalise it ..... if they could figure out how to tax it!

If it was legalised, then the growers & dealers hopefully wouldn't be the problem that they are today, and, possibly, it wouldn't be as expensive to buy either.


The obvious inbetween step to full legalisation is to follow the Netherlands example & make small amounts for personal use legal.

I'd fully support it, even though I have never had anything to do with the stuff.

Some one please correct me if I'm wrong(Ten good men die in the rush)
I've always been under the impression that NZ was party to some treaty or agreement with the USA not to legalise.
I'm also dang sure our Gov't could and would find a way to tax it.They seem to have it down to an art with most other things.Big business would take over an that's all she wrote.

[SPman]

Yeah,but that's not what I ment.
I drink but I don't allow myself to become drunk,I really dislike the Feeling,to the extent were Iv'e practicly given it up all togeather.With weed the whole point is to get stoned.One you can use with out any noticable affects and the other you wouldn't use if you didn't get an affect,so to me they are nothing like one another.
I can't see the logic in legalising one thing just because another thing better or worse is already legal,but that is the logic that the people on this other site were useing.

Know what you mean, generally. Dont like the "not in control" feeling of being drunk, stoned, whatever. However, I usely see weed being used in social situations as a mild relaxant, like alcohol, not to get stoned, just relaxed. Mild use of alcohol is for the same effect. Prefer alcohol these days, doesnt hang around in the system as long and weed just puts me to sleep!
Would prefer "decriminalisation" for small amounts, rather than legalisation.
You could then hit the big time traders heavier - not that it would do a lot of good - theyre pretty dumb buggers, most of them. I know one who has done 2 stints of 2 yrs each for possesion for supply and he's still no wiser!

[jrandom]

However your comparison with alcohol, while relevant to some extent, does not tell the whole story. I would like to know, for example, what Spud's view of the relative social dangers of alcohol and pot are. I have a feeling that a cop would rather deal with a spaced out dopehead than an aggressive drunk...

Indeed. Of course, I have to admit that my regular (and carefully rationalised...) personal use of alcohol makes it difficult for me to take a truly objective viewpoint.

And I also suspect that in the chain of cause and event leading to fried brains and clapped out lives, poor parenting is the real culprit: the drug is in some ways the solution and not the cause.

Here lies the root of the problem; constructing a society without the *desire* for chemical oblivion is the solution. We can't fix everybody by banning what they use to escape reality; perhaps creating a reality that nobody *needs* to escape from would remove the desire to do so.

Then again, we could always just turn on the showers and fire the ovens.

[riffer]

So really, there are two problems:

1. There will always be some element of society who will abuse anything. The government feels the need to protect a small of society by restricting access of potentially dangerous materials to all.

2. There will always be another element of society who will prey on others weaknesses and abusive tendencies. These people will sell anything to those people without ethical dilemmas.

So those of us who are not of the abusive persuasion agree to give up our freedoms to protect the weak.

[FROSTY:Me]

I dont /wont/never will take recreational drugs -BUt
If dope was legal and grown like tobacco then wouldnt it deprive some of the criminal element of income -put em outa business??

[erik]

...
2. There will always be another element of society who will prey on others weaknesses and abusive tendencies. These people will sell anything to those people without ethical dilemmas.
...

Makes me think of tobacco companies...

[riffer]

I dont /wont/never will take recreational drugs -BUt
If dope was legal and grown like tobacco then wouldnt it deprive some of the criminal element of income -put em outa business??

Afraid not frosty - they will just move on to something else. See my previous point 2.

This has been proven by the police crackdown on outside dope growing. All it did was make the gangs turn to P and hydroponic dope growing.

[scumdog]

Gangs are already moving onto P as the drug to sell.

Not many full blown brain-dead lazy non-working druggies started off like that, they (just about all) all started with good old weed, if it was legalised the slick marketing of it would lead a lot more people to try it and a percentage of them onto harder stuff, Holland is an example of that.

Leave it as it is, as somebody mentioned earlier look at the lowering of the drinking age follow-on.

I drink (as some may notice!) and it causes heaps of problems for a lot of people, if it and drugs and tobacco ceased to exist, well I wouldn't bat an eye

[spudchucka]

I would like to know, for example, what Spud's view of the relative social dangers of alcohol and pot are. I have a feeling that a cop would rather deal with a spaced out dopehead than an aggressive drunk...

Firstly I'm not advocating prohibition by saying this but if we didn't have alcohol the crime rate would plummet. I don't know if the situation would be any different if we had legalised pot and alcohol was prohibited. It often seems to me that it is human nature, (or perhaps Kiwi culture) to abuse whatever social drugs are available. What I do know is that the social costs associated with cannabis to those at the lowest end of society are enormous.

As a cop dealing with an offender it would make no difference whatsoever to me whether a person was stoned or drunk. If they need to be taken into custody they will be considered a risk until the bracelets go on. People under the influence of any drug can be highly unpredictable. I learnt long ago not to assume that a person isn't effected by drugs or is capable of being an extreme risk to my safety. I treat everyone the same until such time as I know otherwise or they are safely in custody.

And I also suspect that in the chain of cause and event leading to fried brains and clapped out lives, poor parenting is the real culprit: the drug is in some ways the solution and not the cause.

The poor parenting is often a result of the parent being spaced out most of the time and spending all the families money on booze and dope. The dope is an inherent part of the overall problem and the ones that suffer the most are the children. The kids end up doing burglaries just to get food because there is never any money to buy groceries, then the whole crime cycle begins all over again in a new generation. As the kids get older they get into the weed and P etc and end up in debt to dealers, they then start doing their burgs for drugs.

[Coldkiwi]

i bloody hate weed

it makes growing vegetables a pain in the butt and makes the garden look all grotty when its mates turn up!