Insomnia Sucks!!

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 13:35

For as long as I can remember I have always had problems with getting enough sleep.

I have problems falling asleep at night and wake up a lot during the night and then have trouble falling back to sleep again. On a good night I will probably fall asleep in about 45mins to an hour and normally wake up between 3-6 times a night, on a bad night I just can't fall asleep at all and have been like this for several days on end.

I have tried so many things from, aids such as herbal tea, reading, warm bath, massage, etc etc and have been to the doctors on several occassions and ended up getting sleeping pills "Imovane" which are bloody excellent and help everytime but I just don't want to have to rely on a little white pill to get to sleep.

I am health, fit, and don't really get stressed out but the only thing that keeps me awake at night is the fear of not sleeping again and it keeps me awake. I have tried thinking about nothing, counting sheep etc etc which none of works

Has anyone else here had really bad sleeping problems and what have you done to help in the long term?

I have heard about sleep clinics which I am gonna ask my doctor about and see whats involved and what the cost is, but I am at the point where some nights I just want to head butt the wall until I knock myself out just to fall asleep.

**Paul in NZ** · 8th November 2006, 13:37

When you find the answer let us all know made - I used to sleep like a log but the last few years - sheesh...

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 13:43

Man it sucks!, I am sick of feeling run down and tired all the time, it just brings you down and makes you irritable and grumpy.

**Squeak the Rat** · 8th November 2006, 13:55

For falling asleep:

Go to bed when you are tired, after 10pm
Get up at the same time each morning even if you haven't slept well
If you can't fall asleep within 20 minutes get out of bed and stay out for at least 15 minutes. Do not watch TV - it's too stimulating.
Don't use your bed for anything other than sex or sleep. IE don't read in bed or watch tv.
Make sure your room is quiet (easier said than done in some cases).
Invest in a good firm bed and pillows.
Don't do vigorous exercise after 6pm.
Don't drink booze, it'll help you fall asleep but will wake you up in the early hours of the morning.
Avoid coffee etc after 2pm.
Set aside a worry time to worry about shit during the evening.

Some tricks for falling asleep:

Relaxation techniques such as breathing etc
Lie in bed and tell yourself to stay awake. (reverse psychology)
others that i cant think of right now.

Staying asleep.

This is the biggie.

If you've been taking zopiclone/imovane for ages this represses your REM sleep. When you STOP taking this you get rebound insomnia and you start dreaming shitloads and waking more. Try reducing the dose gradually, and accept you will have restless nights for a period after stopping.
Make sure you don't sleep with the duvet up around your face, some people have breathing difficulties caused by breathing into the duvet and sucking back in CO2.
Breathing difficulties can cause you to wake in the middle of the night.
Waking in the night is quite often a symptom of depression. If you are having problems getting to sleep this may indicate anxiety aswell which can be related. It might be worth seeing a doctor or pscychologist for some advice like CBT.

Hope some of this helps. I'm having sleep problems following a head injury and diving accident, PM me if you want any more info or to chat....

[Edit:] If your doctor has been prescribing zoplicone for a longish period of time without attempting to find the underlying cause I'd seriously recommend visiting a different GP. Ask around friends colleagues etc for a good doctor, else try to find someone who is the same sex and 5-10 years older than you (more chance they've been through what you go through).

**MrMelon** · 8th November 2006, 14:09

Is your diet good?
Got lots of stress in your life?
Do you do enough exercise that it makes you physically tired regularly?
Don't try and go to bed till you're actually tired. I find reading a book for 30 mins before trying to get to sleep can help. Washing tv or sitting on the net doesn't help though.
Maybe trying some meditation? Clearing your mind properly works wonders compared to just thinking about nothing. Although sometimes that still doesn't help me get to sleep.

Failing that, get hold of some of some herbal sleeping remedy.

**pervert** · 8th November 2006, 14:12

Originally Posted by MrMelon

Failing that, get hold of some of some herbal sleeping remedy.

I concur...

You sir, are a smart man!

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 14:16

Thanks for your help mate, I have already tried most of this and/or am currently already doing. See below for my answers to your points....

Originally Posted by Squeak the Rat

For falling asleep:

Go to bed when you are tired, after 10pm

Normally tired as soon as I get home but don't go to bed until around this time.
Get up at the same time each morning even if you haven't slept well

Yep do this every week day but weekends I get up about two hours later.
If you can't fall asleep within 20 minutes get out of bed and stay out for at least 15 minutes. Do not watch TV - it's too stimulating.

Have tried getting up and reading a book, but hasn't really worked for me.
Don't use your bed for anything other than sex or sleep. IE don't read in bed or watch tv.

Check.
Make sure your room is quiet (easier said than done in some cases).

Check
Invest in a good firm bed and pillows.

Check
Don't do vigorous exercise after 6pm.

Check
Don't drink booze, it'll help you fall asleep but will wake you up.

Only on weekends but not every weekend
Avoid coffee etc after 2pm.

Check
Set aside a worry time to worry about shit during the evening.

Never tried this, but will give it a go.

Some tricks for falling asleep:

Relaxation techniques such as breathing etc

Haven't tried this but should.
Lie in bed and tell yourself to stay awake. (reverse psychology)

Haha haven't tried this but will give it a go, should be interesting.

Staying asleep.

This is the biggie.

If you've been taking zopiclone/imovane for ages this represses your REM sleep. When you STOP taking this you get rebound insomnia and you start dreaming shitloads and waking more. Try reducing the dose gradually, and accept you will have restless nights for a period after stopping.

I normally only get these from the doct like twice a year and only get 3 or 5 7.5mg tablets at a time, I only ever get enough to regain sleep if I haven't slept in a couple of days.
Make sure you don't sleep with the duvet up around your face, some people have breathing difficulties caused by breathing into the duvet and sucking back in CO2.

Check
Breathing difficulties can cause you to wake in the middle of the night.

Don't think I have any breathing problems?.
Waking in the night is quite often a symptom of depression. If you are having problems getting to sleep this may indicate anxiety aswell which can be related. It might be worth seeing a doctor or pscychologist for some advice like CBT.

Didn't know this, maybe I should see my doc.

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 14:21

Originally Posted by MrMelon

Is your diet good?
Got lots of stress in your life?
Do you do enough exercise that it makes you physically tired regularly?
Don't try and go to bed till you're actually tired. I find reading a book for 30 mins before trying to get to sleep can help. Washing tv or sitting on the net doesn't help though.
Maybe trying some meditation? Clearing your mind properly works wonders compared to just thinking about nothing. Although sometimes that still doesn't help me get to sleep.

Failing that, get hold of some of some herbal sleeping remedy.

Yep, have a very good diet and being a personal trainer I am pretty fit and exercise a lot. Don't really have anything on my mind that I stress about, I'm not really one to get stressed. Have tried the other things apart from meditation.

As for the herbal remedy, yes I have tried that several times in the past but it hasn't worked either.

**pervert** · 8th November 2006, 14:26

Originally Posted by Fishy

As for the herbal remedy, yes I have tried that several times in the past but it hasn't worked either.

That would depend on injestion amounts, did you try spots?

**The_Dover** · 8th November 2006, 14:29

worked for me and boomer on the weekend.......

also have a wank, it works too.

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 14:32

Originally Posted by pervert

That would depend on injestion amounts, did you try spots?

just about every which way is possible and still no luck.

**Fishy** · 8th November 2006, 14:33

Originally Posted by The_Dover

worked for me and boomer on the weekend.......

also have a wank, it works too.

Yeah heaps of people reckon that but still no sleepy.

**The_Dover** · 8th November 2006, 14:33

fuck mate, come round to my place and if you make it home then you DO have a sleep disorder....

[EDIT: I was referring to spots rather than a circle jerk btw]