Frame Fabrication: Metal Supplier in Christchurch?

**donjohnson** · 5th October 2006, 11:59

Just wondering if anyone knows of a supplier of metal tubing for building a chopper frame in Christchurch?

Cheers...

**Paul in NZ** · 5th October 2006, 12:16

Best sort out the specs of the material first 'cos you don't want your arse depending on any old thing. You need to decide.

Composition (whats it made of?)
Manufacture (how is the tube formed)
Size (diameter - probably need various diameters which could affect above)
Thickness (self evident trade off of strength vs weight)

You probably know all that but you need to talk to these guys in their own lingo or else you will be in trouble...

I used to buy stuff from Steel and Tube 'cos a mate worked there and the price was right....

Paul N

**TLDV8** · 5th October 2006, 13:55

Originally Posted by donjohnson

Just wondering if anyone knows of a supplier of metal tubing for building a chopper frame in Christchurch?

Cheers...

H & S Whites up here were a good source for Seamless tubing in numerous ID and wall thickness's but they seem to have moved ?????

If you find out who is doing MSNZ approved roll cages in your area they should be able to put you onto a supplier.
There is also schedule pipe which will go down to a 10 wall. (Still a bit heavy)

A far as Titanium and other exotic's,i use US Ebay...fwiw

**slimjim** · 5th October 2006, 14:42

matey, word of advice, the tubing you will require, shall need a cert , this will be used to forward it when an engineer goes to sign off the frame, without this cert of material, you will not get an engineer to certifily, as to all welds have to been done by a welder holding a current 4711 ticket,and as well this must be given to the engineer along with his signature,stating he welded it to nzstandard's, one hell of alot cheeper to pay a certifited workshop from the start,including frame design and bill of material's,

**donjohnson** · 5th October 2006, 16:43

Thanks for all the advice, appreciate it.

Slimjim - know any certifiers in Chch that I could talk to?

My mate is a cert welder, welds heavy steel for a living, so no problems there.

Thanks for the cautions, and advice so far, appreciate anything more. I'll be giving this a shot no matter what, more out of fun then anything serious.

matey, word of advice, the tubing you will require, shall need a cert , this will be used to forward it when an engineer goes to sign off the frame, without this cert of material, you will not get an engineer to certifily, as to all welds have to been done by a welder holding a current 4711 ticket,and as well this must be given to the engineer along with his signature,stating he welded it to nzstandard's, one hell of alot cheeper to pay a certifited workshop from the start,including frame design and bill of material's,

**donjohnson** · 16th October 2006, 12:38

I've done a bit of research, talked to some steel companies and a certifier down here.

I'm going to use 38od / 2.9mm boiler tube for the frame, its all been ok'd by the certifier.

As far as welding goes, my mate has his ticket - which is actually not legally required according to the cert man. You just have to prove you are competent at welding.

I've bought the tubing from steel and tube down here, got a good rate on it at around $55 for a 6m length. We'll see how we go from here.

Some things to look out for according to the cert man:

Dual down tubes on the frame - definately preferred
Keep the rack to around 40mm on the neck, extend it on the springer if you like.
Make sure your lights all meet the spec.
And keep him involved.

**degrom** · 16th October 2006, 18:44

Originally Posted by donjohnson

I've done a bit of research, talked to some steel companies and a certifier down here.

I'm going to use 38od / 2.9mm boiler tube for the frame, its all been ok'd by the certifier.

As far as welding goes, my mate has his ticket - which is actually not legally required according to the cert man. You just have to prove you are competent at welding.

I've bought the tubing from steel and tube down here, got a good rate on it at around $55 for a 6m length. We'll see how we go from here.

Some things to look out for according to the cert man:

Dual down tubes on the frame - definately preferred
Keep the rack to around 40mm on the neck, extend it on the springer if you like.
Make sure your lights all meet the spec.
And keep him involved.

Wow... is that a 3mm wall? Can't you call that pipe? LOL

Sounds like it's going to last for ever. How many tube will you be using for the frame?

**geoffm** · 16th October 2006, 20:15

Some reading for you:
Tony Foale and Vic Willoby - motorcycle chassis design
Tony Foale's new book is also worthwhile
Also look at: http://www.tonyfoale.com/
Sorry, you can't borrow mine - a signed original....
Tony Foale has a seminar coming up in Aussie soon - I wish I could go. The man is a genius.

You will be wanting to buy this one ... http://smartflix.com/index.php?main_...oducts_id=1942 (Amazon may have it, otherwise Technical Video Rentals are apparently doing overseas rentals Real Soon Now)

I suggest the motorcycle chassis mailing ist is worth a look.
and Michael Moore's site www.eurospares.com and look at his homemade frames. He is mod of the chassis list.

other reading:
http://www.millerwelds.com/education...rticles70.html
http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com...per-frame.html

3mm wall sounds a little heavy to me. I would have thought thinner DOM seamless tube and lots of triangulation - think Ducati. Otherwise, use a larger section and thin wall which will give you better stiffness than the thickwall tsmall diameter stuff. I used Multiframe years ago to analyse this particular issue. Any good frame program shoudl tell you where to put the extra tubes if you ask it nicely.
Buy or make a tubing mitre jig. You need good, tight fitting joints. If you don't have a tubing bender, there are specialists that can do it for you. I know a place in Auckland, and no doubt there are ones down your way.

I haven't forgotten about your muffler tube - it is sitting on the workbench staring at me...
Geoff

**degrom** · 16th October 2006, 20:28

Originally Posted by geoffm

Some reading for you:
Tony Foale and Vic Willoby - motorcycle chassis design
Tony Foale's new book is also worthwhile
Also look at: http://www.tonyfoale.com/
Sorry, you can't borrow mine - a signed original....
Tony Foale has a seminar coming up in Aussie soon - I wish I could go. The man is a genius.

You will be wanting to buy this one ... http://smartflix.com/index.php?main_...oducts_id=1942 (

I suggest the motorcycle chassis mailing ist is worth a look.
and Michael Moore's site www.eurospares.com and look at his homemade frames. He is mod of the chassis list.

other reading:
http://www.millerwelds.com/education...rticles70.html
http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com...per-frame.html

I haven't forgotten about your muffler tube - it is sitting on the workbench staring at me...
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Tony Foale's book sounds like the best book around for designing bikes. But it's so scares and you can't get it from Amazon. You can only buy it from his website for lot's of Euro.

Where did you get the signed one? Must be worth even more!!! Is it really worth all the money?

I have sent you a PM about the muffler tube that is checking you out...

**donjohnson** · 17th October 2006, 09:30

Originally Posted by geoffm

Some reading for you:
Tony Foale and Vic Willoby - motorcycle chassis design
Tony Foale's new book is also worthwhile
Also look at: http://www.tonyfoale.com/
Sorry, you can't borrow mine - a signed original....
Tony Foale has a seminar coming up in Aussie soon - I wish I could go. The man is a genius.

You will be wanting to buy this one ... http://smartflix.com/index.php?main_...oducts_id=1942 (Amazon may have it, otherwise Technical Video Rentals are apparently doing overseas rentals Real Soon Now)

I suggest the motorcycle chassis mailing ist is worth a look.
and Michael Moore's site www.eurospares.com and look at his homemade frames. He is mod of the chassis list.

other reading:
http://www.millerwelds.com/education...rticles70.html
http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com...per-frame.html

3mm wall sounds a little heavy to me. I would have thought thinner DOM seamless tube and lots of triangulation - think Ducati. Otherwise, use a larger section and thin wall which will give you better stiffness than the thickwall tsmall diameter stuff. I used Multiframe years ago to analyse this particular issue. Any good frame program shoudl tell you where to put the extra tubes if you ask it nicely.
Buy or make a tubing mitre jig. You need good, tight fitting joints. If you don't have a tubing bender, there are specialists that can do it for you. I know a place in Auckland, and no doubt there are ones down your way.

I haven't forgotten about your muffler tube - it is sitting on the workbench staring at me...
Geoff

Thanks Geoff,

Appreciate all the help and advice. I'll check through all those links. So far i've been relying on the internet. http://64.172.168.34/ is a chopper building site with a lot of information, plans, and practical knowledge. Also www.mechwerks.com provides some good examples.

Regarding the tube selection, i've gone with this through researching various sites around the net and talking with a guys from McD's choppers online.

They all suggest either 1.25 or 1.5" ERW or DOM tubing with a wall thickness of around .120". Hence why i've gone for the boiler tube. ERW doesn't come in the measurements I require. DOM is available, but at 3 times the cost.

I believe Slade Engineering in Christchurch will be able to do my bends.

Anyone here know of a cheap/free tube bend designing program?

I'd like to modify my plans a bit and want to see what effect this would have on bracing etc.

Cheers again.

**geoffm** · 19th October 2006, 20:51

Try:
http://www.monachos.gr/greek/links/link_soft.htm (some useful calculators)

more to the point:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/bendin_tube/index.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Links

There are tube bending programs that let you calclulate the bends and lay it up, but they are dear. One you could try is http://www.ezpipe.com/ - there is a demo version but i don't know how crippled it is.
Also. look for Winmiter and Tubemiter software - for laying out the fishmouth joins.
I can't help you with frame analysis programs - lI don't do that stuff any more. ook for structural truss programs
http://dmoz.org/Science/Technology/S...l_Engineering/
http://www.icivilengineer.com/Softwa...ural_Analysis/
http://www.structural-engineering.fsnet.co.uk/free.htm (couple of interesting lookign ones in there)

Regarding Tony Foale's book - I bought it when he published it, as I had prevoiously bought the older version - he announced it on the MC Chassis list.
Geoff

**donjohnson** · 25th October 2006, 13:31

Thanks again Geoff.

Just for anyone out there looking at building, i've got the tube, ended up going with 31.8mm boiler tube with a 2.9mm wall.

So far i've found two companies that can bend this steel:

Rangiora Exhausts
Auto Motion - http://www.automotion.co.nz/

Also looking into purchasing a bender from Pro Tools, they've got a kit form one for around a grand.

cheers...

**Animal** · 25th October 2006, 14:17

Originally Posted by donjohnson

Thanks again Geoff.

Just for anyone out there looking at building, i've got the tube, ended up going with 31.8mm boiler tube with a 2.9mm wall.

So far i've found two companies that can bend this steel:

Rangiora Exhausts
Auto Motion - http://www.automotion.co.nz/

Also looking into purchasing a bender from Pro Tools, they've got a kit form one for around a grand.

cheers...

G'day mate,

Autobend in Christchurch are bloody good. I use their bending services frequently. As a design engineer, I provide them with CAD files on the tubing I need bent. Their flash bender produces identical copies of the items i have modelled in 3D. Impressive kit, but they're always busy so you need to be prepared to be patient.

Also, there's an old guy (Alan Burrows) who has a workshop on Princess Street Addington. He has a kick-arse bender and his prices are fantastic. He certainly knows his shit - used to build chassis for McLaren in the UK. His number is 342 3007.

Your project sounds bloody interesting!

Cheers!

**Animal** · 25th October 2006, 14:22

Originally Posted by donjohnson

Thanks again Geoff.

Just for anyone out there looking at building, i've got the tube, ended up going with 31.8mm boiler tube with a 2.9mm wall.

So far i've found two companies that can bend this steel:

Rangiora Exhausts
Auto Motion - http://www.automotion.co.nz/

Also looking into purchasing a bender from Pro Tools, they've got a kit form one for around a grand.

cheers...

Bythe way, if you'd like your tubing designed digitally, I have the software. Send me a pm and we can talk.

**Animal** · 25th October 2006, 14:26

Also, if you need a registered engineer to certify your design, speak to Jason Galbraith at Galbraith Engineering, Livingstone Street (982 3113) because they design structural tubular products - and are bloody good at it.