Body mechanics and countersteering

[Chrislost]

yooouz all think too much.
suerly thatd be 2nd nature before you get back from your first ride?

[swbarnett]

yooouz all think too much.
suerly thatd be 2nd nature before you get back from your first ride?

Well put. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Albeit perhaps a bit thechnically.

[moT]

also important to lean with the bike or position your body into the corner otherwise your leaning the bike more than ur turning body position is also important when rideing in a curve hanging off the bike (not just siding your bum off the seat) but moving your whole body which makes your bike corner just as fast but at a less of a lean then ofcorse you can crank it right over whle hanging off to get the most turning you can out of your motorcycle,. this process should feel natural if it doesnt then your probably doing something wrong

[Raoul Duke]

Counter steering with the is the number one rule for sure, one other thing that's made a huge difference for me is twisting your hips towards the inside of the corner which in turn locks your outside knee and elbow into the tank that along with keepimg your inside elbow bent gives you a pretty damn good position. I could be full of WANK but it seems to work!!

[moT]

Counter steering with the is the number one rule for sure, one other thing that's made a huge difference for me is twisting your hips towards the inside of the corner which in turn locks your outside knee and elbow into the tank that along with keepimg your inside elbow bent gives you a pretty damn good position. I could be full of WANK but it seems to work!!

yeah i find locking elbow helps especialy thru a high speed corner eg: 7th corner taupo the sweeper

[Stella]

So how do I tell if I am counter-steering?
It always looks to me like the handlebars are perfectly straight, I am not consciously doing anything apart from leaning. As far as I can make sense of it, leaning without counter-steering would also turn.

If I want to try counter-steering, do I still actively lean or not?

(Also, I think I always start turning too soon, sometimes having to straighten mid-turn. Any pointers on how to know where to start? Thanks)

[swbarnett]

So how do I tell if I am counter-steering?
It always looks to me like the handlebars are perfectly straight, I am not consciously doing anything apart from leaning. As far as I can make sense of it, leaning without counter-steering would also turn.

Without a force applied perpendicular to your direction of travel you will not turn. This force can be initiated at low speeds by turning the handlebars or at higher speeds by counter-steering. Leaning alone does not provide sufficient force as the angular momentum of the wheels is resisting any change in position. Essentially you're riding a pair of gyroscopes.

In a straight line the rotation of your front wheel is pushing your rear wheel into the road. When you counter-steer this rotational force moves away from the line of the bike and acts towards the back and a little to the side.

Go around a corner as normal but hold the bars loosely and observe which side of the bar is pressing into your hand. You will find that for a left-hand corner there is pressure backwards into your right hand. This shows that the bars are turning imperceptibly to the right

If I want to try counter-steering, do I still actively lean or not?

Just try going down a straight road and gently push the right handle-bar forwards. The front wheel will turn left and your bike will start to lean to the right. The same will happen in the opposite direction (push left bar, wheel goes right, bike leans left).

(Also, I think I always start turning too soon, sometimes having to straighten mid-turn. Any pointers on how to know where to start? Thanks)

This will come with experience. You'll start to sense how far you need to lean for a given corner radius and then you'll learn to judge where to start to match that lean to the corner. Better to turn too early and have to straighten than to overshoot and have to lean more than you're comfortable with.

[Stella]

Thanks heaps, swbarnett, that helps a lot Good explanations.

I will definitely try the straight road thing.

[JoeNormal]

Check out this short video on you tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzB5oriblk&NR=1

[90s]

yooouz all think too much.
suerly thatd be 2nd nature before you get back from your first ride?

The important thing is to really understand countersteering and how it works. The reason is that when a rider who is not experienced (or often is) stuffs up going far too hot into a corner or needs to avoid a sudden event (ie. something falling in your path or a big pothole) you do the 'normal' thing.
Countersteering is the most effective way to initiate a FAST turn and to get you through a too hot corner. If you really understand it and have practiced it will be second nature.

Now many riders CS without realising it after their first ride like you say. But when they ride into trouble they do something else - often with bad results.

This safety announcement was bought to you by the good people at repsol - pure spanish olive oil.

[Stella]

THANKYOUSOVERYVERYMUCH!!!!!!!!
That video is brilliant, and I looked through the other videos in his series to. It finally makes sense!
And yes, I do it, and did it when I was a kid on my bicycle
Should be compulsory newbie viewing.

[Reckless]

So how do I tell if I am counter-steering?
It always looks to me like the handlebars are perfectly straight, I am not consciously doing anything apart from leaning. As far as I can make sense of it, leaning without counter-steering would also turn.

If I want to try counter-steering, do I still actively lean or not?

(Also, I think I always start turning too soon, sometimes having to straighten mid-turn. Any pointers on how to know where to start? Thanks)

Here is one that is racer based.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWb3l...elated&search=
Don't know how to do that video window thing??
Stella alot of people think countersteering is opposite locking all the way through a corner. Don't confuse this, you still lean normally. Its usually for the initial turn in only (although it can tuck it in a bit better during a sweeping corner as well). Some of the descriptions here are when riders force the countersteer to get it down quickly or to get it into a corner when they have gone in a bit hot. And its not easy to deliberatly do when your arse is tryin to suck the seat cover into it cause your goin far too fast!!

[Ocean1]

Nobody has mentioned it but you also countersteer to pull the bike up coming out of a corner (steering in towards the curve). In fact you use the same slight pressure on the bars to maintain your line at any time.

If you doubt that then (as previously observed) try to maintain any line with your hands off the bars. Takes a fair bit of body lean to initiate even minor corrections on a straight let alone a corner.

I'm interested to learn about the very different body positions used on dirt and road bikes. I'm very aware of why on a dirt bike you lean the bike and more or less keep your body upright, weighting the outside peg definitely eases the lateral pressure on the tyres, keeps the weight (and therefore grip) more "down" into the ground. Trust me, it's faster, and way less likely to wash out (particularly the front) at/on any given speed/surface.

I can understand that a road bike can get WAY more grip all round, and that in a cornering you can approach the angular limit of the tyres contact patch. I imagined that the purpose of leaning in towards the corner on a road bike was therefore to allow a tighter turn while keeping within the tyres limit. Some comments here seem to suggest that it's a faster technique even when not pulled right over on the limit. Motard riding style looks to me like the simple transplanting of dirt techniques onto asphalt. Is that because the bikes are geometrically in fact dirt bikes? If so what’s the differences in geometry that make the riding technique “appropriate”.

Anyone?