Gun Raids - Big Brother is here

**scumdog** · 22nd December 2006, 22:44

Originally Posted by doc

What practical use is an MP5 or Uzi, if people want to play with them fine if they are "Drill Purpose only" Most members of the armed services only get an intro to auto weapons and never have much to do with them after that.
Great for a quick thrill but the novelity wears off. NZer's don't need military auto's or pistols.

Fuck off ya dick, going by your analogy we din't need 150+hp motorbikes -yet we still import them and temporary NZers ride them....

If I can have an Uzi and are deemed 'suitable' to own one then I'll continue to own one - and a M16 and a AK47 and a FAL etc etc....

**Dai** · 23rd December 2006, 07:16

Originally Posted by doc

What practical use is an MP5 or Uzi, if people want to play with them fine if they are "Drill Purpose only" Most members of the armed services only get an intro to auto weapons and never have much to do with them after that.
Great for a quick thrill but the novelity wears off. NZer's don't need military auto's or pistols.

By this reasoning we only need low powered motor vehicles that can only just reach the speed limit.

I have a friend who is very much into the old muzzle loading black powder firearms.

He brought an old US Civil War musket back to this country, An original .58 front stuffer. Customs official he met at the airport wouldnt release it as he considered it to be a "MILITARY STYLE" firearm and the import form was for a sporting rifle. It was a military rifle in the 1860's but is now archaic.

Maybe thats the plan. The NZ forces are going back to muskets and we civilians cant have those firearms either.

After a few phone calls my mate got his rifle but this experience hasnt endeared him to the PC authorities here.

**jrandom** · 23rd December 2006, 09:52

Originally Posted by doc

Great for a quick thrill but the novelity wears off. NZer's don't need military auto's or pistols.

If you find guns boring, well, good on ya. You'll probably tend to have a lot more spare cash than me.

But you can fuck off and die with that 'don't need' shit. What are you, my mother? I'm no criminal. Don't presume to dictate. You may take your Orwellian society where anything I don't 'need' is banned, and stick it up your arse.

Give me freedom or give me death. But if you can give me freedom while at the same time stopping gangsters from getting easy access to weapons, that's just fine and dandy in my books.

Anyone wishing to label the recent raids on dealers and collectors as some sort of fascist gun control should shut their pie hole and wait for the facts to come out in Court. Do you really think the cops would have been stupid enough to confiscate their guns without solid proof of dodgy dealings?

This has been one of the few discussion forum threads I've ever seen that triggered Godwin's Law on the first post.

**T.W.R** · 23rd December 2006, 10:27

Originally Posted by Fish

Anyone wishing to label the recent raids on dealers and collectors as some sort of fascist gun control should shut their pie hole and wait for the facts to come out in Court. Do you really think the cops would have been stupid enough to confiscate their guns without solid proof of dodgy dealings?

There was an article in the ChCh Press this morning stating that there were 1047 weapons seized of which one person was responsable for 562 of those weapons

WTF is he/she starting their own militia

plus there were also Handgrenades & home made Land mines siezed as well

having 562 weapons is dodgey in it's own right and who the fuck needs Handgrenades & home made land mines ??

BTW needing a good home for a while:

DIEHL Gmbh &Co Geschaftsberiech Munition ammunition division Product Catalogue
Fabrique Nationale Herstal S.A Defence & Security Division Ammunition Catalogue
Nico Pyrotechik Hanns-jurgen diederichs GMBH & Co.KG product catalogue

**Pixie** · 23rd December 2006, 10:31

Originally Posted by NighthawkNZ

I only have a high powered crossbow, & a medium powered one, and you don't need a licence for these... makes you wounder???

I have an MSSAAR
Military Style Single Action Assault Rock

**jrandom** · 23rd December 2006, 12:35

Originally Posted by Pixie

I have an MSSAAR

I have a pointy stick.

**Clivoris** · 23rd December 2006, 13:49

Originally Posted by Fish

I have a pointy stick.

I've got the upgraded multi-purpose model. Pointy at one end and shitty on the other. It's all the stick I ever need.
By the way..What's brown and sticky?

A stick.

**Lou Girardin** · 23rd December 2006, 14:39

Originally Posted by doc

What practical use is an MP5 or Uzi, if people want to play with them fine if they are "Drill Purpose only" Most members of the armed services only get an intro to auto weapons and never have much to do with them after that.
Great for a quick thrill but the novelity wears off. NZer's don't need military auto's or pistols.

I'd like to buy one just as a toy. But I can easily forego that bit of fun in the interest of keeping them out of the hands of crims.

**Skyryder** · 23rd December 2006, 16:32

Originally Posted by scumdog

If I can have an Uzi and are deemed 'suitable' to own one then I'll continue to own one - and a M16 and a AK47 and a FAL etc etc....

That's the key SD, 'deemed suitable.' I don't have a problem with those that are as you say 'deemed suitable.' It's the dipsticks that preach there should be gun ownereship 'as of right.' That's an imported idea from the American Constituition and is the crux of the NRA's philosphy. Any lelgislation that interfares with that right is 'deemed' unconstitutional.

Any collector who 'knowingly' breaks the law in relation to firearms legislation in my opinion I would deem unsuitable. And having a licence indicates that they have someknowledge of the legislation pertaining to it.

I need a fishing licence to fish for trout and salmon. If I do not have a licence and get caught fishing I lose my gear. If I fish in a manner that is prohibited I lose my gear and gbet prosecuted. The dealers broke the rules and lost their 'gear.' The question is "why did they break the rules?"

Skyryder

**Swoop** · 23rd December 2006, 16:40

Originally Posted by T.W.R

There was an article in the ChCh Press this morning stating that there were 1047 weapons seized of which one person was responsable for 562 of those weapons

WTF is he/she starting their own militia

Perhaps the person is a firearms dealer?
They do have a certain amount of firearms on display in most gun shops.

**crack** · 24th December 2006, 00:29

I can remember having to take any new fire arm into the police station and letting the local arms officer record it's serial No. and the like.

1994 I bought a rifle back from the USA, and on entry to Auckland, I only had to show it to the police, they did not record any serial No.

Now I have to pay $138: for the privillage to own a rifle for sporting purposes.

Have a look at the following, it makes for sober reading.

FACTS TO PONDER:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now think about this:
Guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
(Yes, that's 80 million..)
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Statistics courtesy of the FBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, statistically, doctors are approximately
9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,
BUT
ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Out of concern for the public at large,
We have withheld the statistics on
lawyers
for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek
medical attention
There is a serious flaw in this weird and funny argument, viz:

When a doctor picks up a scalpel or prescribes a medicine he does so in order to save lives and / or to enhance the quality of life of his patients.

When the owner of a gun picks it up 99% of the time it is to do just the opposite. He (or she), of course, may accidentally miss.

Work it out.

And for someone to think the police are not below going after the EASY LOOK good to the NO GUN LOBYISTS, I would say THINK AGAIN: just look at the type of politicians we have in power, and even more damming the type of 35- 40 yr old professional that believes in the PC system, and has never had to use, or understand, discretion:

**doc** · 24th December 2006, 05:03

Yep they have cocked it up you use to have to..

Sit test (Few dollars )
Select Gun
Get "Permit to procure" local cop
Get gun
Show policeman who checked safety and serial no and recorded it
All sweet.

Now it cost a fortune non police staff running it who probably have never fired a gun.
And some of the ones I've wound up with my anti-auto comments, bet they didn't have the same attitude when they did the interview.
They have lost track of all the weapons. I think they are trying to get the user pays system to sort it it you want a gun the cost is going to get that high eventually because we are paying for their changings to the system that didn't work.

**Skyryder** · 24th December 2006, 06:50

Originally Posted by crack

FACTS TO PONDER:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now think about this:
Guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
(Yes, that's 80 million..)
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Statistics courtesy of the FBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, statistically, doctors are approximately
9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

What a load of bullshit. This is typical NRA statistical crap. To make comparisons with unrelated data. (medical misadventure or for that matter anykind of death by misadventure) The NRA and their apologists do this sort of thing all the time.

FACT:In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S: That's total.

Fact. 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths), Thats a far cry from what you are trying to say

Now 'ponder' on those facts.

Skyryder

**scumdog** · 24th December 2006, 07:48

BTW: Gun registration does not necessarily make things 'safer'
It was abandoned when it was realised that the only real benefit was it enabled recovered stolen to be returned to their rightful owners - and that's assuming said owners are still alive/still live at the last know address.

It sounds 'nice' and 'it will make things safer' to have all guns registered - but that's an illusion.

**jonbuoy** · 24th December 2006, 08:08

Originally Posted by Skyryder

What a load of bullshit. This is typical NRA statistical crap. To make comparisons with unrelated data. (medical misadventure or for that matter anykind of death by misadventure) The NRA and their apologists do this sort of thing all the time.

FACT:In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S: That's total.

Fact. 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths), Thats a far cry from what you are trying to say

Now 'ponder' on those facts.

Skyryder

True & most people who go to see a doctor aren't in the best of health anyway.