Question on counter-steering

[discotex]

+1 for Twist of the Wrist. It's only $30 from Fishpond.co.nz

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Spor...t_info/1327959

Best video I've seen that shows countersteering in action.

[YOUTUBE]lxM_GU7W-dE[/YOUTUBE]

[Badjelly]

My feeling is if you have to ask about cornering, while owning a 50+hp machine.....well lets just say i hope the road is gentle to you. If i had not ridden a bike for 10 years, the first thing i would do is go out and buy a cheap, gutless bike to re-learn how to ride......then after i had some skills i would buy a bigger one.

Why you whippersnapper! I've half a mind to box your ears.

Just because he asked a question on the forum, doesn't mean he has no skills. 10 years away from biking might make you a little rusty, but it doesn't turn you into a novice. As for the 50+hp, doesn't that depend on how far you twist your wrist?

[Badjelly]

Just remember countersteering is usually only done at the moment of turn in. I had a mate that swears he pushes the bars slightly the opposite way all the through the corner. He thinks thats countersteering. Thats quite wrong! You are much much better to lean in with your shoulder mid corner and let the bike do its thing without assisting it with un-natural opposite locking type bar movements. Most people don't even know they are doing it upon turn in, and thats quite ok!

Over doing it is described quite well and briefly here http://www.thunderbike.co.nz/worksho...ersteering.htm

My opinion only!

I don't agree that countersteering is only relevant to turn-in. I think it depends very much on the bike: once you've started the bike on the turn, some bikes will want to follow a constant radius, some won't, and of course on most bikes it depends on how much power you apply at the rear wheel.

In my attempts to re-learn riding over the last month, I've found that my cornering has improved in smoothness as I've though consciously about adjusting the bike's line through the corner via handlebar inputs.

The link you've given sets up & demolishes a straw man: apparently counter-steering consists of successive violent nudges to the handlebars, with the arms locked straight in between to cope with the enormous forces involved. Well, yes, it's not good idea to do it that way. So I don't.

My opinion only.

[Strider]

That video really clears things up on what counter steering is. Thanks alot

[Strider]

I have had done a few ks on my bike even been from Lower Hutt up the Kapiti coast. I also have to travel over the Wainiomata hill to or from home on the bike. For those that know that hill, it is a good hill to get to understand the counter steering. I am not out to break any speed records nor have I have not had any riding problems with handling the bike. I also have booked in for the Roadsafe course coming up in November just to help improve my riding. So thanks to all you "kiwibikers" for your advice.

[GSVR]

Thanks to all you guys on this thread for some really good info on counter steering, esp that breakdown Jim2. I'm getting back into the biking after a wee break, and this stuff is great.

Getting back into biking after a "wee break" What did you break and do you think the breakage could have been avoided if you knew more about countersteering?

[GSVR]

Countersteering - try it!!

Push the left grip forward and youll veer left
Push the right grip forward and youll veer right

Its that simple.

I tried this and almost fell off Think I'll just stick to my natural don't even think about it steering.

[MotoKuzzi]

Perhaps its the width of the bars, and other geometry of the bike, but when I first tried counter steeriing with forceful inputs ( as recommended ) I damn near went into a ditch. I've since refined it to minor pressure ( pulling ) left or right will cause the Guzzie to go exactly where I want it. And a light weight on the outer handle bar will steer it round a tight corner without requiring to much shifting of body position. But its good to practise both.

[mowgli]

Woohooo.. I seem to be able to lean my body into the bend whilst countersteering now. After reading the posts here and re-evaluating my body posture, I discovered the reason I leaned against the corner was because my inside elbow was straight (kinda like forcing the bike down). Taking a corner feels so much better when I bend my elbow into the corner.

Now I am going to focus on my eyepoint, ain't too good at that yet!

Congrats on figuring it out. I was once told to imagine kissing my mirrors going into turns. It helps with leaning and pushes the inside shoulder forward a little to help with counter steering.

I've also had trouble with straight arms. I gave myself a scare in a corner when my position and speed were off. I knew I needed to lay the bike further into the turn but counter steering didn't seem to be working. WTF @#$! I played around afterwards and discovered that it was my tensed up, straightened outside arm that was cancelling out pushing forward on the inside.

Now when I think counter steering I don't think "push inside forward", I think about rotating my shoulders. This has freed up my steering control heaps especially at town speeds.

[MVnut]

Sounds like you are riding like a dirt rider,pushing the bike down lower than your body...I often do that on tight corners.A dirt rider (or motard on road) will often keep their inner arm straight and push down on the bars through their shoulder - it's still countersteering,just a more forceful way of doing it...making the bike turn....and that's what countersteering is all about.

You need to be more subtle maybe,move with the body first and the bike will follow.

Now this comment I like !!!

[steveb64]

All of that and I pull the opposite bar a bit too.........

Snip'd

Some folk (like me) find it easier to pull the outer bar rather than push the inner one. Try that.

DON'T pull! PUSH!

I'm not exactly sure why (some other race guru may have a better explanation - please do) - but pushing on the inside bar seems to stabilise things much better than pulling on the outside bar does. A mate of mine who's done a lot of racing passed the tip onto me some years ago (after a race school IIRC) - I tended to pull on the outside too, but once he pointed it out to me, and I started experimenting, and found that it DID make a difference (quite a large one too!) - I now push on the inside bar....
IMO - it's to do with having the inside arm under pressure (as opposed to tension), which sets up a form of triangulation between the grip, the shoulder, and the seat - helping to keep things stabilised - particularly in those corners where the entry speed has turned out to be slightly higher than it really should have been...
...maybe also to do with it being easier to keep your arm steady when you're pushing something, than when you're pulling something?

[YellowDog]

Thanks for some very good explanations. I poersonally find that my best cornering is when I have no idea at all what just happenned.

Looking through the corner, for me, means that everything else just happens automatically. It is a very strange sensation.

I went through a period of struggling with confidence as I had kind of forgotten how to corner. A very strange feeling however I was just focussing on the road infront of me and not the entire bend.

Where the problem comes is that when you want to ride faster, you start to think more about what you are actually doing.

[The Stranger:Me]

DON'T pull! PUSH!

I'm not exactly sure why (some other race guru may have a better explanation - please do) - but pushing on the inside bar seems to stabilise things much better than pulling on the outside bar does. A mate of mine who's done a lot of racing passed the tip onto me some years ago (after a race school IIRC) - I tended to pull on the outside too, but once he pointed it out to me, and I started experimenting, and found that it DID make a difference (quite a large one too!) - I now push on the inside bar....
IMO - it's to do with having the inside arm under pressure (as opposed to tension), which sets up a form of triangulation between the grip, the shoulder, and the seat - helping to keep things stabilised - particularly in those corners where the entry speed has turned out to be slightly higher than it really should have been...
...maybe also to do with it being easier to keep your arm steady when you're pushing something, than when you're pulling something?

Try reading Total Control by Lee Parks for an explanation why this works.