Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

**FROSTY:Me** · 15th January 2007, 13:08

Originally Posted by gav

Yes the F3 rules are to be reviewed, the SV's are to run to much tighter rules, and the 400's will have to remain as 400's, currently you can run a big bore 450cc "400". After watching the Nationals from Levels today, the motards arent a problem in F3. Yes, there were a few out there, but the nature of this track, doesnt really cause them them to ride with there foot out. However the fastest F3 bike out there was a YZF450 engineered special, with 17" wheels, is it classified as a motard? (Jason Eastons Tigcraft 450)

gav--where did you get this "information" from??
Changes to the F3 rules are proposed changes for discussion only at this stage

**motobob** · 15th January 2007, 16:17

An interesting one sided debate. Dirt bikes have been used on race tracks for years and not caused problems until the riders learned to back em into turns and stick their foot out. I don't see there is a problem mixing in with Road racers. The Motards are very ccompetive on tighter tracks and expose the riding skills of us "roadies".

I have got pissed trying to pass them at trackdays but realised they were better at braking into a turn than me. The line they take thru turns makes it hard to overtake them at times. But usually you have a speed advantage over them.

Having them ride in a similar style to RR's may help the situation. But who knows. Basically you chose a bike that will make you competive, so if you chose a Motard then so be it.

Haven't seen any at Pukekohe' so I presume they are not competive there. Seen plenty at Taupo and they sure are competive there.

Basically I would like to see them remain in F3 rather than have a seperate class. Delayed starts don't work for the fast guys that mix with the slow riders in the class ahead. But thats another debate.

GO Motards

**TonyB** · 15th January 2007, 17:13

Originally Posted by FROSTY

gav--where did you get this "information" from??
Changes to the F3 rules are proposed changes for discussion only at this stage

Doesn't pay to listen to rumours eh. I started this thread after hearing that MNZ had ruled that Motards were banned from the Formula classes. Has anyone actually got any proof that this is the case? Cause I haven't... I should've

Last year I was told by a very creditable source that MNZ were going to discontinue F3 in 06/07. That didn't happen either.

**scracha** · 15th January 2007, 17:20

Originally Posted by TonyB

Scracha, you misread my post. It wasn't directed at you.

Spotted....sorry

**scracha** · 15th January 2007, 17:31

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

So, back to the original subject: banning motards from the Formula races.

7. No, the class belongs to ANYONE whose bike meets the specification. If we were to get down to brass tacks on that complaint then 125's would be kicked out too.

Point 8: See my earlier posts about vehicles with serious performance advantage being banned.

Point 7: Rightly or wrongly it's the competitors that make a race. If half the F3 field get sick of racing motards then they'll just stop going or form their own Formula 400 class. It is effectively "their class". If the majority of F1 riders wanted anything less than 900cc banned then it would probably happen too.

**TonyB** · 15th January 2007, 17:52

Originally Posted by scracha

Spotted....sorry

Not a problem.

**gav** · 15th January 2007, 21:16

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Originally Posted by gav View Post
Yes the F3 rules are to be reviewed, the SV's are to run to much tighter rules, and the 400's will have to remain as 400's, currently you can run a big bore 450cc "400".

gav--where did you get this "information" from??
Changes to the F3 rules are proposed changes for discussion only at this stage

Originally Posted by TonyB

Doesn't pay to listen to rumours eh. I started this thread after hearing that MNZ had ruled that Motards were banned from the Formula classes. Has anyone actually got any proof that this is the case? Cause I haven't... I should've

Last year I was told by a very creditable source that MNZ were going to discontinue F3 in 06/07. That didn't happen either.

You see that word "reviewed" in my post, Frosty?

Didnt say it was gospel, and the info is posted on Motorcycling New Zealands website, matey, not just a rumour, there then, aye TonyB.
Heres the link. http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down...D_F3_Rules.pdf

Nothing but the facts from me.......

Anyway, what was with that KTM 990 running in F3?

**Crasherfromwayback** · 15th January 2007, 21:58

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

Perhaps that's the trouble on this board? All those egos bashing against each other. I know I have one.
idle out

As I'm sure it's painfully obvious do I.....I'm gonna do my very best to only add stuff here that I hope will be helpful from now on......well that....and the odd filthy thing....

Originally Posted by FROSTY

To me its pretty clearcut. Motards ridden in any other class are fucking dangerous.plain and simple.

I don't think you can say that mate......bit like saying 'slow' racers can't race in 'your' class innit? They can be (due to huge speed differences) well dangerous yeah?

**TonyB** · 16th January 2007, 05:46

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

I don't think you can say that mate......bit like saying 'slow' racers can't race in 'your' class innit? They can be (due to huge speed differences) well dangerous yeah?

Geeze, don't say that- I'll be banned from racing.

Gav, thanks for finding that proposal. So it looks like MNZ are proposing to quietly restrict Motards to 450cc. I can see a few owners of (eg) DR650 engined RGV's and similar specials having something angry to say about that. Bloody motorbikes- theres too much variety!

**roogazza** · 16th January 2007, 08:12

I see this thread is coming to an end tomorrow, everything settled then ?

I don't remember anyone complaining about Wayne Marshall and Peter Ploen on MX bikes at Wanganui in the seventies ? Look at the numbers doing points races down south at the mo, (9 or 10 in F1 !!!) We need every entry we can get by the look of it. Give them their own class sure, as they seem to be the growth area in road racing.
I must say they don't bother me ! If you get a handlebar in the ear can't you give one back ?? or has racing got PC like everything else in this country..... Gaz.

**That Guy** · 20th January 2007, 19:46

An interesting thread.

I have raced in F3 with some success on a RGV250, and have come up against plenty of motards, and SV650s, and even super hot $30,000 ZXR450s for that matter. The fact is, F3 is a hybrid class these days because there just aren't enough of us turning up with one class of bike to call it a race.

I hate racing motards.

You come into a corner and they are basically stopped dead right in ront of you. You have to go off line, lose all you corner speed, and by then they have stood themselves up, and wheelied away. You gather back up your momentum and have caught them again, and there they are, stopped dead right in front of you at the next corner. Same again to the next corner. You either tee-bone them or take 3 laps to get by.

Then again I hate racing SV650s. You come up behind them too. At least they are riding a more noraml road racer's line - but still you can carry much more corner speed on a RGV. Anyway, you catch them up, and then they dissapper down the straight, only to brake 25 meters before you need to. So you catch them too. Only to see them go and disappear down the next straight.

My point is this - I would love to only be racing the same class of bike as I ride - but unless I go 600 or 1000 that will not be the case in NZ. We as a country are just too small to have enough riders beyond these the 600 and 1000 classes, to have enough classes popular enough of the same bike class to make make a race. The caveat to that statement I'd make is that based on the growth of motard bikes, it might be motard bikes that are the future for F3.

F3 is a mish-mash sure - but I'd rather be out there against SV650s and KTM525SMs then not have a class to race in with my RGV.

Chill out and have fun! Its what we're all in it for anyway.

**TonyB** · 20th January 2007, 19:53

Originally Posted by That Guy

The caveat to that statement I'd make is that based on the growth of motard bikes, it might be motard bikes that are the future for F3.

F3 is a mish-mash sure - but I'd rather be out there against SV650s and KTM525SMs then not have a class to race in with my RGV.

Good point. Good post

**Clivoris** · 20th January 2007, 20:12

Originally Posted by That Guy

My point is this - I would love to only be racing the same class of bike as I ride - but unless I go 600 or 1000 that will not be the case in NZ. We as a country are just too small to have enough riders beyond these the 600 and 1000 classes, to have enough classes popular enough of the same bike class to make make a race. The caveat to that statement I'd make is that based on the growth of motard bikes, it might be motard bikes that are the future for F3.

F3 is a mish-mash sure - but I'd rather be out there against SV650s and KTM525SMs then not have a class to race in with my RGV.

Chill out and have fun! Its what we're all in it for anyway.

Look mate. This thread stopped making sense ages ago and now you come in and raise the tone.

Now I'm all confused

**That Guy** · 20th January 2007, 20:14

Originally Posted by Clivoris

Look mate. This thread stopped making sense ages ago and now you come in and raise the tone.

Now I'm all confused

Sorry! I came in far too late. Nobody likes a gate crasher

**Crasherfromwayback** · 20th January 2007, 20:33

Originally Posted by That Guy

An interesting thread.

I hate racing motards.

You come into a corner and they are basically stopped dead right in ront of you. You have to go off line, lose all you corner speed, and by then they have stood themselves up, and wheelied away. You gather back up your momentum and have caught them again, and there they are, stopped dead right in front of you at the next corner. Same again to the next corner. You either tee-bone them or take 3 laps to get by.

.

As I said much earlier....the ones that do that are simply trying to look good!
We (well most of us) all know it's not the fast way round a race track, and Jesus, the ones riding like that piss me off too, and I ride motard from time to time. It's got to be drummed into them I think.....just 'cause you're riding a dirt bike....doesn't mean you have to ride it like you're on a moto-x track!
They need to understand that to stick with bikes with more power, it's a high cornering speed they need to adopt! It's the way I've always raced dirt bikes!