Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[k14]

Hmm yeah this is a toughie. I used to be of the opinion that they should be able to race in any class their bike was able to race in. Now I've changed that opinion.

I have had some many near misses and 2 actual crash incidents involving motards. They take lines that are totally different to "conventional" racing lines and do unexpected things mid corner. I do not like racing against them and now if I do come up against one in a race I am very apprenhensive about trying to make a pass due to the unpredictablility of them.

Let them race in their own class and be done with it.

[k14]

As for different lines: bullshit. The only motarder taking 'different' lines at Wanganui was the Aussie on the Aprilia and his lines were not that much different. Inexperienced racers on ANY bike are far more dangerous than a good rider on a motard. Besides, TAKING DIFFERENT LINES IS WHAT RACING IS ABOUT! How the fuck can you pass a bike if all you do is follow the same bloody line!?

Thats a total load of bs. Obviously you've never raced against any before. Its not the different race lines that they take, its more the unconventional ones.

I can remember at paeroa last year I was coming into the final hairpin just to the left of a motard about halfway up. All of a sudden his rear wheel goes sideways and nearly hit me. Now if that isn't different then I don't know what is.

[scott411]

this leg out thing is a bit of a crock, how much further does a leg stick out than some one putting a knee out,

i can understand the different line and the backing it in, however i have seen a few of the better guys backing in F or F2 bikes as well,

and the corner speed is a crock as well, if i am ever at road race days i get held up by guys on road bikes in the corners as they break a hell of a lot sooner than we do due to more top speed and more weight,

and i would not start trying to get rid of motards, as i think clubs would struggle with out the entries they provide at the moment.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Keep your foot on the Peg. thats why you have foot pegs.

Or are you afraid you cant handle the bike and need your foot out to make sure you dont drop it?

We dont want to get rid of motards, we just want them in thier own class.

CAN IT BE MORE SIMPLE??

[Rashika]

this leg out thing is a bit of a crock, how much further does a leg stick out than some one putting a knee out,

i can understand the different line and the backing it in, however i have seen a few of the better guys backing in F or F2 bikes as well,

and the corner speed is a crock as well, if i am ever at road race days i get held up by guys on road bikes in the corners as they break a hell of a lot sooner than we do due to more top speed and more weight,

and i would not start trying to get rid of motards, as i think clubs would struggle with out the entries they provide at the moment.

motards are funny things, I quite enjoy watching them, but no way would I want to race WITH them. For pretty much all the reasons that K14 and TonyB have stated.
There was a couple of dirt style bikes in post classic at nelson, they weren't too bad, but they were nothing like the full-on Motard bikes. Guess i'm glad to race in buckets and post classics only, no motards there.

But sorry to say, after all the crap with the combining classes etc at Nelson st races, I have quite gone off motards tho... esp with one motard rider (only 1 mind you, the rest seemed okay with it) actually bitching about the fact that they only had 2 races each round, (ended up with 5) when we got only 1 race in total for buckets for the entire day!
Road bikes with road bikes and dirt with dirt... isn't that kinda fair to both groups then?

[scott411]

Keep your foot on the Peg. thats why you have foot pegs.

Or are you afraid you cant handle the bike and need your foot out to make sure you dont drop it?

We dont want to get rid of motards, we just want them in thier own class.

CAN IT BE MORE SIMPLE??

learn to use the outside line, if we are that slow in the corners just go around , its not that hard is it, if we have a foot on the ground we can;t be going that fast

[Sketchy_Racer]

Stick to your own class and I'll stick to mine, then even less of a problem

[Paul in NZ]

So why are you racing? Why do people organise races?? Esoteric GP techo dreams or do you just like the thrill of riding fast?

Do the paying public care? We had a thread a while back on how to get more people to come along to watch motorcycle racing... Perhaps ultimately this issue will be decided on what the public want to pay to watch..... The more spectacular it is the more the public will like it (I assume).

The public has largely gone off bike racing in NZ (compared to what it was) and I can understand why. Most races these days are a confussing mass of bikes in multiple classes all blatting around randomly and I can't tell an F3 bike from a F1 to look at.

If a class is so small it's not economic or large enough to stand alone perhaps it should be cut and the promoter should play to the strengths or public opinion?

[Keystone19]

I race with the motards in F3 occasionally. I don't mind racing with them and like Goblin have found it kind of fun. They are just a little more challenging to get past and I'm extra wary of where they are going next - but as with any overtake maneuver, I watch them for a few corners and then pounce when I spot a weakness - jolly good fun...

Having said that, I would prefer they have their own class because of their particular style and pace which does differ from the road bikes. This also means I get to enjoy watching them from the sidelines instead of trying to avoid them on the track...

[Sketchy_Racer]

Maybe Racing needs to be sorted in a fasion where everyone gets 1 class, and only 1 class.

That way it is simple for -

-the People watching us. They are the most important people. Having lots of people racing is great, but no good if no-one is watching. we need spectators at our sport to bring in money. Things like, the more people around, the happier it makes out (limited) sponsors. I know i sure would prefer to watch Clearly layed out classes, and not just jumbled bikes out there.

- Simpler for the Organisers. 1 bike, 1 class. much easier than 1 bike and a bazillion classes.

- Simpler for the riders. They know that the bikes they are racing is defintaly in thier class. Not, "hmmm i dunno, is that a F3 bike or a Post classic. shit i dunno"

Sure, you loose some track time. But hey, plenty of bikes already only get 1 class. EG 125GP and Clubmans.

A little off topic, i know, but to the point of Motards cross entering. well that would solve that issue.

But unfortunatly, that is unfeasable at the moment, due to the lack of racers.

To be honest, the more serious this becomes, the less fun it is for the racers, which them makes it less fun for the watchers.

I believe, the 2006 Vic series was one of, if not, the BEST series. It was clear and simple. Thats how racing events should be run

[Toast]

Having ridden with them at track days, I don't mind them too much. Sure, they have got a different style to the sportsbikes, where they seem to be fast as hell in to a corner but slow through it and average out of it, but there's nothing wrong with a little variation in my opinion. Any times that I failed to overtake them I put down to my own shit riding rather than getting bitchy about their being present.

I was speaking to a guy who races in PMCC though, and apparently F2 at the short Taupo track just became a huge mess with 40 or so bikes entered in there, due to all of the motard boys clogging it up. So, maybe my mind will change when I get in to a PMCC meet and the riding feels more like Auckland rush hour.

Apart from their entries making class numbers too great for a certain track, I can't see a really solid reason why they shouldn't be allowed to mix it with sportbikes.

[Rashika]

I was speaking to a guy who races in PMCC though, and apparently F2 at the short Taupo track just became a huge mess with 40 or so bikes entered in there, due to all of the motard boys clogging it up. So, maybe my mind will change when I get in to a PMCC meet and the riding feels more like Auckland rush hour.

Apart from their entries making class numbers too great for a certain track, I can't see a really solid reason why they shouldn't be allowed to mix it with sportbikes.

The problem is when racing (rather than just a track day) there is a competition going on... who is the fastest obviously. And people do spend a whole lotta money to race and may have just one bike, and able to enter just one class. I can definately imagine their annoyance to see a motard in 3 or more classes , and at times stuffing it up for the riders who ONLY have that class to race in.
Just cos they CAN go in a class does not mean that they SHOULD.
Technically my bucket could go in f3, but i dont cos I would not want to hold up the racers out there, who want to make the most of their race, and would probably smoke me easily Same with the LC: technically able to go in whatever class it would be (?) but I stick to post classics for a number of reasons: I aint that fast and the bike is 25 years old... simple
I bought 2 bikes cos I wanted to race in more than one class, I dont expect to be able to race in more than one class.
Having said that, I wish like fk I had put the bucket in F3 at Nelson, so that I did get more than one outing on it... but thats life , maybe next time I will just for the hell of it.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok thats fine. I'll harden up.

But I'll remind YOU to harden up when i slam into you cause your chock chaser is holding me up in the turns.

You ride a motard, so of course your gonna want as much track time as you can get.

How about stop being so damn greedy and just stick to your class?? Simple huh?

The lines you guys take arent much of an issue its the Wank factor riding you do (backing it in, and the whole foot out)

How about YOU motard guys harden the fuck up, and learn to ride with your foot on the peg?
And how about YOU motard guys learn to come into a corner with out crossing it up?

Sure do it in your motard class, but dont fucken do it in any of the road bike classes!!

Oh, and im sure you would bitch endlessly if i entered your class on a 125gp bike and whooped your arses?? So, dont come into the road bike classes.

Please engage brain prior to posting nonsense.
I NEVER raced a motard, I always raced road bikes.
HOWEVER, I NEVER had a problem with chook chasers racing in any of the classes I was in. If that's the only bike someone owns, let em race it in ANY class it is eligible for. If a motard wins any race, it has justified its entry into that race and tough luck to the whiners who chose the wrong option.
As for motards being slow in corners: bullshit! If the motard you see is slow in a corner it's the rider who's slow not the bike. A 100kg motard is as fast as anything ridden well around corners.
If the line they take pisses you off, tough luck, that's racing and the same line could be taken by any road bike too (I tried to always take a different line; it's the best way to pass).
As for sliding into corners; at Wanganui only 1 rider did that and he was the Aussie import on the Aprilia. Racing is racing and all lines are eligible as well as all styles. Hell, I used to slide my CBR around corners too albeit under power out rather than in. People whined about my scarey lines and sliding back then too but screw them: I won races and rarely fell off.

[idleidolidyll]

Thats a total load of bs. Obviously you've never raced against any before. Its not the different race lines that they take, its more the unconventional ones.

I can remember at paeroa last year I was coming into the final hairpin just to the left of a motard about halfway up. All of a sudden his rear wheel goes sideways and nearly hit me. Now if that isn't different then I don't know what is.

Dear young fella, please don't guess about my racing history, you are clueless.
I HAVE raced against motards, they've been around for fukken years even when they were just YZ or KX500's fitted with 17" wheels.
Hell, there was a fantastic rider on one way back in the late 80's who used to race the Napier GP on it. He was bloody hot and always finished well. To boot, he only had one arm!
As for taking unconventional lines: tough luck, that's bloody racing. The guy or gal who can take a different line has a better chance of passing if the power out of a corner is the same.
Good grief! What a pack of whiners racers are today. I reckon it's because they can't beat the motards.
Re 125's. Dave Moore raced a Morbidelli 125 years ago in F3 and it wasn't the chookies that held him up, it was the 400's. Nevertheless, Dave usually managed to win in the end and he never complained about motards or slow 400's.
Being held up in corners will always be the case for 125's in an F3 race and the only way you'll stop that is to have a 125 only class. I guess there'd be about 5 riders - yawn!

[idleidolidyll]

Maybe Racing needs to be sorted in a fasion where everyone gets 1 class, and only 1 class.

nah, that's a boring idea. It would lead to small fields and boring racing.
NZ is just too small for restricted fields.
Petition MC NZ for a 125 only class and if you get one, I'd guess it'd last about 2 seasons before it was canned out of sheer boredom.