Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[idleidolidyll]

If motard fields are big enough then why shouldn't they get there own class?
Why do you think they have cross entries in f1 and f2 for club racing?For numbers.
I have had a couple of moments with the motard riders in f3 but hey shit happens. for me it is the size of the fieds.

There's more to it than that. The more classes you have the longer it takes to cycle through them, particularly if there are crashes.
If Wanganui had more clases this year it would have been a disaster. Even with the classes they had they were running over an hour late.

BTW: since Yamaha and Suzuki 1000cc bikes are winning everything in F1, shouldn't we ban them for being so dammned popular?! (sarcasm)

So what is an ideal field size?
I reckon up to 50 bikes is great on most NZ tracks. Over 50 bikes and they should limit the field size NOT by banning a particular type of bike but by excluding the slowest qualifiers (who are usually the ones who get in the way of the top riders). Those guys could have their own 'clubmans' race instead regardless of size rules.
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[NordieBoy]

I can understand why, the different lines of a motard bike can upset those of a road bike.

What different lines?

[TonyB]

The problem is when racing (rather than just a track day) there is a competition going on... who is the fastest obviously. And people do spend a whole lotta money to race and may have just one bike, and able to enter just one class. I can definately imagine their annoyance to see a motard in 3 or more classes , and at times stuffing it up for the riders who ONLY have that class to race in.
Just cos they CAN go in a class does not mean that they SHOULD.

My point exactly- I'm not so much speaking from my own experience, just imagining what it would be like being an F3 rider in NZ at the moment. Or someone that turns up at a meeting with $20K or more invested in a bike that can only run in one class, and then listening in disbelief when some riders start complaining that they can now only run in two. As I already said, I looked at buying a Motard because they offer such awesome value for for money- one bike that does just about everything. No doubt my viewpoint would be different if I had bought one.

Idle, maybe you have a point. Maybe everyone should just go and buy a motard, but then we wouldn't be developing racers to potentially go overseas. from what I've seen of the World Champs on TV, they race Motards on go-kart tracks, with areas of dirt jumps etc thrown in. Very different from whats being done here.
Also Idle, I think Dangerous and RG100 have a point- you raced a CBR600 against the occasional dirt bikes with road tyres in the 90's. You shouldn't have had any trouble beating them, especially considering you appear to be a racer of some talent. Fourstroke dirt bike development has come a hell of a long way in that time, they are a whole lot faster than they were before, plus you can walk into a shop and buy a purpose build motard RACER, a machine built expressly for the purpose of motard racing, and then you can line it up against 400cc fours from the early 90's, Hyosung GT650s, and SV650s. A 100kg, purpose built race machine verses a mildly developed midsized 175kg dry sports tourer.

[jahrasti]

There's more to it than that. The more classes you have the longer it takes to cycle through them, particularly if there are crashes.
If Wanganui had more clases this year it would have been a disaster. Even with the classes they had they were running over an hour late.

BTW: since Yamaha and Suzuki 1000cc bikes are winning everything in F1, shouldn't we ban them for being so dammned popular?! (sarcasm)

So what is an ideal field size?
I reckon up to 50 bikes is great on most NZ tracks. Over 50 bikes and they should limit the field size NOT by banning a particular type of bike but by excluding the slowest qualifiers (who are usually the ones who get in the way of the top riders). Those guys could have their own 'clubmans' race instead regardless of size rules.
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You have some good points, I wasn't at wanganui but didn't they have their own class. Anyway F3 rules are possibly going through a bunch of possible changes and if the SV boys have the rules changed about suspension then motards will be the last thing on their mind.

carry on nothing to see here

[Tim 39]

Motards are an issue running in F3, there's enough of them to give them their own class where they can all do rarkys and wheelstands together. Some of it isn't just the bikes, the riders also think that theyre bigger than me (I ride an RS125) so they can just push me round the track, I don't take it, and then they think I would've just let them past WRONG, so then they don't know what to do when I don't let them past, and end up a touch worried for their safety and end up closer to me than they had planned, or are surprised when I take 125 lines for some reason. I think you'll find most F3 riders and almost all of the 125 riders are sick of it. The Motard guys are probably sick of us too, so best for all parties I feel.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Do you race you chock chasers on an MX track?

You would also understand that due to the ride height of the average chock chaser it requires a differant riding style ( i think the laws of physics may apply here too)

In your varst racing experance you may have noticed that chock chasers are pushed down into the corner with the rider more ontop of it rather than leaning with the bike. Now i don't know about you but i don't have a magical legs that all of a sudden get longer when i go around a corner so i can't keep them on the pegs, so what do i do with it?

I lift it out of the way .........

Now i'm not going to go into the whole counter steering thing with you because i know what an experanced rider you are and wouldn't want to insult you by explaining shit that you already know but just try riding a Motard before making some of your ignorant comments.

But back to the topic on hand i do agree that the Motards should have a class of there own as they have the numbers to warrant it as do bike like the SV's. So once we take the Motards & SV's out of F3 and give them there own classes we can then listen to those left to moan about how they no longer have anyone to race against.

But you can't please everyone.

Man, you really took that in a negetive way.

I do like motards, and i do love watching them race, In thier own class.

Also to do with feet on pegs or not,

It seems this guy doesnt have an issue. He must have magical legs

here two guys racing motards.

Guess who was winning

[NordieBoy]

It seems this guy doesnt have an issue. He must have magical legs

here two guys racing motards.

Guess who was winning

Hmmm, the guy on the 620 or the guy on the 450...

If the class is Motards only then they can race as Motards do - Leg out and sliding.
If the class is mixed then they cannot put their legs out.

Simple.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yeap. that works for me.

But its still a shame to have a good class like F3 swamped by Motards

[Hellraiser]

Too be honest i think there are bigger problems in the road racing scene in NZ than weather motards should have there own races or not ......... lol

MCNZ seems to promote MX more than Road Racing these days.

[Tim 39]

I agree with RG100 in this argument also, It's not that we (the 125 riders) aren't winning against the motards. I bet all of them last time at ruapuna, but still had that issue of getting past them, with their "different" riding. It's more of a safety issue because of the different lines and riding technique. 125's are fine in F3 I think, because we take roadrace lines and so do the F3 guys funnily enough. They don't put their feet out, and niether do we.
F3 is for roadbikes, If they have their own class already they should be happy with that.
and as for all that about choosing your bike better, I disagree. and I'd have to say if you were on an F3 bike and were being held up by a 125 on the straights because of their lack of power, you aren't all that smart, the straight isnt a hard place to pass somebody!!

[Sketchy_Racer]

haha,

What people need to do, is forget the motards.

And get 125GP bikes!!
I cant figure how people would rather buy some baggy old street bike, with rooted suspension, and then wanna race it!!!

How about just buy a purpose built race bike and ride the sucker.

(but i would say that)

[dangerous]

If the class is Motards only then they can race as Motards do - Leg out and sliding.
If the class is mixed then they cannot put their legs out.

Simple.

Arghhhh, but they do... at riders breifing last w/e they were told keep feet on pegs... ok now go look at your photos, yeah look at em all with their legs out

if being popular is a reason to ban a type of bike from a class we're in serious trouble

They are not being baned ya twit... they have been given a class of their own

[Paul in NZ]

Sort of depends what you want...

If i was a real road racer I'd want pukka GP bikes in an orderly fashion etc etc and hardly anyone would hang about for the prize giving.

If i was a promoter I'd want motards plus MORE motards AND I would not be paying bugger all for first place but I'd pay a bonus for slides (Backing it in), wheelies and assorted stupid shit. Fuck if I could arrange a team to do synchonised slides and shit I'd pay em double....

Weird eh?

[NordieBoy]

ARE, but they do... at riders breifing last w/e they were told keep feet on pegs... ok now go look at your photos, yeah look at em all with their legs out

317 - Noticed him doing it and wondered if he'd get told off.
35 - He's got a good excuse.

Now how about all those naughty wheelies then

Motards should race in the Motard class.

But how do you define "Motard"?

In UK the rules used to be "Max of 3 cylinders" and that was it.
The dirt section imposes it's own rules

[dangerous]

Tony started this thread off to get peoples ideas on MNZ giving Motards their own class of racing... now some how people are getting the idea that they have been 'bared full stop'
Not so, so lets stop thinking that the retards are being hard done by... eg: Port Nelson st races last w/e... motards had up to 6 races and 2 pratices, some of the other classes only got 1 pratice and 1-2 races.
So stop thinking the bastards are being hard done by.