Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[Sketchy_Racer]

The thing that puzzles me, is how come these bikes, which are essentially rekitted MX machines, are so competitive.

I would have thought that a bike racing "out of its element" as it were, against proper road racers would be so uncompetitive as to be absurd.

After all, if you put a 21inch wheel and knobbly tyres on a road racer and entered it into MX races I do not think the results would be very good.

why then is the reverse not equally ludicrous?

Surely a dedicated road racing motorcycle, with all its fairings, clipons etc should easily be able to outrun an offroader of a race track?

A road race bike that weighs 100kg, and makes 80Hp will easily run rings around one.

But most road race bikes (bar 125s) weight heaps, and make very little power to weight ratio.

And if i put long forks and a extended swingarm on my RS, with some Dirt tyres, and a really low ratio gear box.. It would probably do pretty weill against the other 125 MX bikes.

For lap times, An RS125 ridden well, will/should smoke any motards on the tarmac

[Ivan]

I would like to see a well ridden bucket, go around a corner as fast or faster than a well ridden 125.

Not only corner speed, but all so straight line speed. There could quite easily be a 90KPH speed difference inbetween a 125 and a bucket.

Fuck that

I like Ivans idea of the motards having thier own split class. that would be good, and it would also give the guys on the 250 motards a chance to win in thier own class

Yes exactly as there are a few ring ding ding 2 smokers out there at the mo which are not competive over a well ridden crf450

And exactly you wont see a bucket bike corner as fast as a well ridden 125GP bike, thats why 125's areso fast they go relatively fast in a straight line but corner so fast,

F5Daves is the only exception I reckon, I saw him line up a few moves on a we little RS125 yellow in the weekend until the 125 hit the straights and slowly got into it

[dangerous]

a bucket goes slow around a corner

Wanganui would be a awsome bucket circuit maybe usbucket riders should start a petition aye

Im starting to wounder if you have ever riden a bucket let alone own any? Like Kickaha says, fast cornering is a buckets bigest advantage.

Wanganui... a good bucket track, na mate ya need hp to go up and down.

pffffffft you must race slow buckets if you think they are slow around corners,corner speed is everything in the bucket racing we do, when we race against other bikes and follow them through the corners it's the buckets that get held up

I would like to see a well ridden bucket, go around a corner as fast or faster than a well ridden 125.

Not only corner speed, but all so straight line speed. There could quite easily be a 90KPH speed difference inbetween a 125 and a bucket.

Ya big naa na... were did Kick say a bucket would be faster than a 125gp, a 125gp and a sorted bucket have similer cornering abilitys... and a genius knows a 40-50hp 125 will clean a 10hp bucket up... shessss

[dangerous]

And exactly you wont see a bucket bike corner as fast as a well ridden 125GP bike, thats why 125's areso fast they go relatively fast in a straight line but corner so fast,

F5Daves is the only exception I reckon, I saw him line up a few moves on a we little RS125 yellow in the weekend until the 125 hit the straights and slowly got into it

you wont see a 125 corner as quick because it dosnt enter the corner as fast

Just F5 huh... you need to get out more wally

[Sketchy_Racer]

Ya big naa na... were did Kick say a bucket would be faster than a 125gp, a 125gp and a sorted bucket have similer cornering abilitys... and a genius knows a 40-50hp 125 will clean a 10hp bucket up... shessss

I may have mis-read Kicks post, but it sounded to me that he thought that buckets have the same or more corner speed than a 125.

And, yeah a bucket in a GP chassis wil have the same cornering ability as a 125GP bike, but i would hate to be racing hard core against other 125 GP bikes, to come across a 1900 XL125 with banged out shocks, and knooblys worn down to slicks, In the middle of a corner. Ohh, that would be fun.

And, no shit a 125 is faster down the straight. Its that speed difference that could cause an issue. Like, 200kph vs 100kph. Dodgy!!

Thank fuck that'll never happen.

(except when people like me jump in the wrong class for testing )

[Sketchy_Racer]

F5Daves is the only exception I reckon, I saw him line up a few moves on a we little RS125 yellow in the weekend until the 125 hit the straights and slowly got into it

Yeah that little prick was in the wrong class!!

But, i herd rumours that his battery had gone flat, and was firing erratically, mid way through corners. I dunno, though. Just a rumour

[onearmedbandit]

, but i would hate to be racing hard core against other 125 GP bikes, to come across a 1900 XL125 with banged out shocks, and knooblys worn down to slicks, In the middle of a corner. Ohh, that would be fun.

And, no shit a 125 is faster down the straight. Its that speed difference that could cause an issue. Like, 200kph vs 100kph. Dodgy!!

Thank fuck that'll never happen.

(except when people like me jump in the wrong class for testing )

Hows this for a clapped out bucket then?

[Sketchy_Racer]

haha. Yeah thats a real 'looker' !!

To bad its not a 'goer'

Last time i herd, he had to take a piston with him on the way to the dairy to pick up milk

[vmx1200nz]

the sidecar races were gutted, they reckon that the whanganui club is heavly biased to dirt and super motard. they had guys up from the south island and they couldnt race. and (whanganui) did a dirt track that wasnt approved.
anyway,,,,it still was good to watch

[Ivan]

Hows this for a clapped out bucket then?

Looks like myneexcept nicer

[Jantar]

Up to 125cc would be abadidea youd have 125gp bikes 125 buckets couple of 50cc buckets etc then its the exact same line we are pointing to with the motard situation a bucket goes slow around a corner different lines a 125gp bike goes fast round a corner as there speed comes from corner speed and youll end up with lots of 125 guys getting PISSED off and crashing just as dangerous,

So if I understand you correctly you are saying a well ridden 10 -15 HP bucket will out accellerate a 45+ HP GP bike off the start and out of the corners? If this is not the case then how would the bucket be in front of a GP bike in the corners?

I will not agree with the comparison of cornering speeds. From my understanding cornering speed has more to do with tyre selection, ground clearance, center of gravity etc than straight out HP. Its a few years since I did any race bike development, but I do believe I'd have no trouble setting up a bucket that would out corner a GP bike. Just dont expect it to have anywhere near the accelleration or top speed.

Surely if a rider can set up his motard to compete adequately with GP bikes of the SAME capacity then he should be permitted to race against them.

[Sketchy_Racer]

No, you dont understand Ivan (dont worry, not many do) He is saying that buckets are slow mid corner. But RS chassied buckets, are just as fast through the corners
Hahahaha. You go ahead and try get a bike to out corner a 125GP bike. As far as i know, in the right hands, they are the fastest cornering bikes you can get. I dont think MR Honda would spend millions developing a bike, if someone from some dopey hick country, could do better in his backyard. No

And, the Classes are good as they are now, they DO NOT need to be changed.


What needs to be changed is that the motards cant come into the Formula classes. Simple.

[onearmedbandit]

Dopey hick country? In his backyard? Against the might of a factory race bike? No you are right, no one could do that.....

[roogazza]

the sidecar races were gutted, they reckon that the whanganui club is heavly biased to dirt and super motard. they had guys up from the south island and they couldnt race. and (whanganui) did a dirt track that wasnt approved.
anyway,,,,it still was good to watch

Wanganui , W A N G A N U I !!!! A city south of the Bombays, where they have held motor cycle racing for 50 years ! G.

ps they're biased all right ! bring back Barbara Lett !!!!!!!!

[dangerous]

Last time i herd, he had to take a piston with him on the way to the dairy to pick up milk

Well... ya se thats what ya get when you try and take on the mighty dangerous... that will learn ya SteveK.

either that or a tad to lean and that spany sucked the piston clean out.