Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

**Goblin** · 11th January 2007, 19:08

Originally Posted by gav

Yeah right, Prez......like anyone with any "experience" was going to volunteer for that number........

**gav** · 11th January 2007, 19:44

So whats next, kicking out mini motards from the bucket class?
This is from the 2 hour race in Auckland recently.

**NordieBoy** · 11th January 2007, 20:10

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

fucked if i'm interested in riding a 17" wheeled bike with slicks off road and as anyone can see by the way the gingerly ride them on the silly dirt sections we've seen so far: thay handle like shit on dirt

Nah, just wind it open...

**Bykmad** · 11th January 2007, 20:11

If you want to ride an Off Roader, ride it. Off Road. If you want to Motard it, Motard it, but dont expect to enter every class at a Road Race meeting on an Off Road Bike. Imagine if Jared Love, Hayden Fitzgerald, Craig Shirriffs etc decided to enter their Road Race bikes in Motard, which under the current rules they can, look at Jason Easton at Paeroa last year when he couldnt get an entry in F3 class. If you race an off roader, race in the off road class!

**gav** · 11th January 2007, 20:51

Umm, a Motard qualifies for F3 as per current regulations, notice that a 125GP isnt actually eligible for F3.

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down...egulations.pdf

However a road bike is not eligible for Supermotard. http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down...per_Motard.pdf

This is as per the actual regulations set down by Motorcycling New Zealand. The Motard guys arent breaking any rules as far as machine eligibililty goes, the riding "style" of some of those riders may be questioned however.

**idleidolidyll** · 11th January 2007, 21:24

Originally Posted by dangerous

Gobs: How many stamps are in your 'current' MNZ licence??? (if you have one) I have 28... includes 3 S/I tracks and 3 street races...
I am also the President of a Motor Cycle Racing Club... You dont get to do these things if you are green, and I sure as hell dont know it all and hope I never do.

being the prez often just means you were the only mug to offer your services

i've been national prez mate, i know the process

and as for stamps; i ride bikes, i'm not into philately.
who gives a fuck about a 'current' licence? does your 'current' stamp collection make you better than simon crafar, gareme crosby or a hundred other fabulous riders who probably don't even HAVE a current licence? i KNOW there's a few here.

i'm an opinionated bastard and in my opinion i'm right; motards are a great choice and the whingers are just whining 'cause they made bad choices or can't beat em, tough luck

smart racers read the rule book carefully and ride the bike that's gonna suit them best

good night and thanks for all the fish

**idleidolidyll** · 11th January 2007, 21:27

Originally Posted by Bykmad

If you want to ride an Off Roader, ride it. Off Road. If you want to Motard it, Motard it, but dont expect to enter every class at a Road Race meeting on an Off Road Bike. Imagine if Jared Love, Hayden Fitzgerald, Craig Shirriffs etc decided to enter their Road Race bikes in Motard, which under the current rules they can, look at Jason Easton at Paeroa last year when he couldnt get an entry in F3 class. If you race an off roader, race in the off road class!

my old ktm 640sm came factory fitted with road wheels and tyres and suspension tuned to suit. it had indicators, lights and a warrant of fitness: it was sold as a road bike

the same goes for my current 950

gurgle gurgle; another one goes down the sink

**idleidolidyll** · 11th January 2007, 21:34

Originally Posted by bistard

Hey pete,thats if you could make it past that bloody bridge!!
Hehehe
But I agree,hanging the back out it not the fast way through a corner

one more time just cause its fun: racing isn't about the 'best line around the corners', it's about beating the other bikes across the finish line and if that means 'ungentalmanly' tactics then so be it. it aint like that's something new ya know

slipstreaming, diving under, sliding in or out or both, slowing in a corner deliberately to fuck up the other guy, outbraking and taking a crap line that fucks the other up: it's all good stuff and all valid in a race until the marshalls wave the black flag

if you think otherwise you're never likely to amount to much imo

**gav** · 11th January 2007, 21:53

Too right, the best racing line is seldom available , even for the pro's. If you followed WSBK when Troy Corser was on the Foggy Petronas, occasionally he managed to put the bike on pole, due to a hot superpole lap when he had the track to himself. However never did him any good, as he could never get to the first corner in front and found the more powerful bikes "blocking" his ideal line.
Back in the two stroke 500cc GP days, Aprilia after checking how fast a 250 could lap, and seeing it able to lap in times fast enough to make the top 10 of the 500cc grid, decided a super 250 was the way to go, so built a 400cc "big block" 250. While it could turn a fast qualifying lap, in the race, it didnt have enough power to get to the first corner in front and wasnt able to use its advantage of its superior cornering speed, the bigger bikes would come down inside and square off the corner and wheel spin out, blocking the Aprilias ideal lines.

Then you get some smart prick turning up riding like this!

**Crasherfromwayback** · 11th January 2007, 22:26

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

one more time just cause its fun: racing isn't about the 'best line around the corners',

YES IT IS...SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO VARY THOSE LINES...BUT THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT ALRIGHT.

it's about beating the other bikes across the finish line and if that means 'ungentalmanly' tactics then so be it.

THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING KNOWN AS A 'HARD ARSED RACER' AND A DIRTY CUNT. I'VE RACED AGAISNT BOTH, BUT HAVE RESPECT FOR ONLY THE FORMER.

it aint like that's something new ya know

NEITHER IS CHEATING....DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOOD.

slipstreaming, diving under, sliding in or out or both,

AGREE WITH YOU HERE

slowing in a corner deliberately to fuck up the other guy,

ANYONE THAT HAS DONE ANY RACING AT ANY SEMI DECENT LEVEL WILL TELL YOU THAT 'BRAKE CHECKING' SOMEONE IS NOT ON...DANGEROUS, AND NOT AT ALL FUCKING COOL.

outbraking and taking a crap line that fucks the other up:

YOU WON'T STAY IN FRONT FOR LONG

it's all good stuff and all valid in a race until the marshalls wave the black flag

LIKE A BLOWFLY.....BLACK FLAG IS NEEDED FOR FLEAS TOO.

if you think otherwise you're never likely to amount to much imo

I'VE BEGGED TO DIFFER....AND I'VE DONE QUITE ALRIGHT.

**dangerous** · 12th January 2007, 06:53

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

being the prez often just means you were the only mug to offer your services

i've been national prez mate, i know the process

and as for stamps; i ride bikes, i'm not into philately.
who gives a fuck about a 'current' licence? does your 'current' stamp collection make you better than simon crafar, gareme crosby or a hundred other fabulous riders who probably don't even HAVE a current licence? i KNOW there's a few here.

Ohhh fuck off, I was talking to Goblin, about our racing career I was not saying any of the above you are taking shit out off text... and I never offered my mug to be Pressie.. I was bullied into it, bugger em.

NOW... Im off to add another 1000+ k's to my riding days... so you lot keep up the bull shit and Ill catch up on my return

**idleidolidyll** · 12th January 2007, 07:09

thanks for those replies.
i'm now certain you know practically nothing about winning motorcycle races

**dragonz** · 12th January 2007, 09:43

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

I can agree that now they're so popular as far as competitor numbers go they should have and stick to their own class (and I race one!), but not with the rest of your comments.

Years ago I used to race KX500's in F2 before motard was even born, and won a shitload of races against some pretty good riders. But as the 600 proddie based bikes got so much better, it made a 500 two stroke moto-x bike nowhere near competitive enough.

But when I race moto-x, if you wanna come and take me on- on your GSXR1000, I say bring it on mofo! Just because my RMZ450's origins were the dirt, doesn't mean that if there was a particular street race track where they'd be competitive now I shouldn't be able to take on anyone with ANY bike!

I do agree that there are too many guys (and Gals maybe) taking fucked up racing lines on their motards, that can and do cause problems for the road race bikes....but they simply need some 'education'. Fuck, my accident at Wanganui '05' was caused by some 'Peanut' doing just that.

Years ago now I raced at the one and only (I think?) Auckland street race round the warves area (so long ago now I can't even remember exactly where it was, but I've still got pictures!),
I DARED show up to this huge street meet where they were holding the AUSTRALIA VS NZ F2 CHALLANGE?? Where the two teams had their best SIX RIDERS on late model TZ YAMAHAS doing battle...and the late ROBERT HOLDEN on his well potent oversized Ducati? So from 39th on the grid I managed after having to barge my way (wouldn't have had to have been so agressive if they were sensible and put me in my rightful grid spot) through far too many slow ROADRACERS to get my way to 6th at the finish of race one.So obviously quite pleased with my effort, I looked forward to race two.....especially as I must surely have earnt my 6th spot on the grid!!??

Now anyone that was actually there way back then, will no Doubt remember ROBERT HOLDEN doing WHEELSTANDS the length of the front straight on that hugely impressive Pantah based Ducati.....no blag flag threat to him right? And please don't think I'm trying to compare myself to Robert, as on a street circuit, I'd never be cheeky enough, and not many ever did compare......but
EXCUSE ME?

So GUESS WHAT HAPPENED IN RACE TWO?

Yeah funny that......I once again had to barge and carve my way from 39th to 6th again in about TEN MEASLY FUCKING LAPS!

So my chances of having a crack at the top three guys were shot.....my prize money severly DEPLETED.....because WHY? I showed up on a KX 500 and DARED WASTE a lot of the then 'NAMES' of NZ and Aust ROADRACING on late model PURPOSE BUILT ROADRACE BIKES?

I could be wrong....But I'm pretty sure it was 'THE AUCKLAND MOTORCYCLE CLUB' hosting and 'controlling' the EVENT.....WELL IT NEARLY PUT ME OFF ROADRACING for GOOD!

They weren't and never will be 'MOTORCYCLISTS'.

Rant (yeah I know) finally over.

Sorry I shortened up your quote for space.
You were awesome, didn't know why you were made to start so far back each race, nice to find out the truth eventually!
Would have loved to see you & Robert closer, synchronised monos on each straight would have been awesome! You were a very popular watch.

The organisers were a little paranoid about the wheelies however!
They had pushed all kinds of shit up significant hills to get the meet, & were being "monitored" very closely by the council, i understand.
You wern't the only one spoken to.
I was in the pits with Paul Pav & Robert Holden when the Marshalls requested less "front wheel airtime" from them, & several others, much to those riders displeasure also!

Must look back through my archives, think I have some pics of you somewhere.

Regards

Phil

**dragonz** · 12th January 2007, 09:52

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

I can agree that now they're so popular as far as competitor numbers go they should have and stick to their own class (and I race one!), but not with the rest of your comments.

Years ago I used to race KX500's in F2 before motard was even born, and won a shitload of races against some pretty good riders. But as the 600 proddie based bikes got so much better, it made a 500 two stroke moto-x bike nowhere near competitive enough.

Years ago now I raced at the one and only (I think?) Auckland street race round the warves area (so long ago now I can't even remember exactly where it was, but I've still got pictures!),

Rant (yeah I know) finally over.

You were awesome that meet, wondered why the were starting you so far back!

The organisers were paranoid about the crowd safety, & they were hard on a lot of riders about wheelies!
They had pushed all kinds of shit up a number of significant hills to get the meet to happen, & had the council fun police on hand to monitor the situation, or so I understand.

You wern't the only rider spoken to about wheelies.
There was a big thing at the riders briefing, &
I was in the pits with Paul Pav & Robert & some of the international riders when they were spoken to about "front wheel airtime" after the first race or 2.
Those riders wern't to happy about being told how to ride their bikes either!

Must go back through my archives, think i may still have some pics of you somewhere.

Regards

Phil

**Crasherfromwayback** · 12th January 2007, 09:53

Originally Posted by dragonz

Sorry I shortened up your quote for space.
You were awesome, didn't know why you were made to start so far back each race, nice to find out the truth eventually!
Would have loved to see you & Robert closer, synchronised monos on each straight would have been awesome! You were a very popular watch.

The organisers were a little paranoid about the wheelies however!
They had pushed all kinds of shit up significant hills to get the meet, & were being "monitored" very closely by the council, i understand.
You wern't the only one spoken to.
I was in the pits with Paul Pav & Robert Holden when the Marshalls requested less "front wheel airtime" from them, & several others, much to those riders displeasure also!

Must look back through my archives, think I have some pics of you somewhere.

Regards

Phil

lol...not surprised mate....it was a rather long rant/dribble session!

Thanks for your kind words, although no matter how far up the grip they'd put me, I wouldn't have been on Roberts pace!

The petty organisers aside, I had a great time there, and that was only my second ever road race.....I was hooked then!

Pete