Graeme William Burton in custody

**Scorpygirl** · 8th January 2007, 17:13

Originally Posted by yungatart

So now they have amputated his leg..pushed some poor old guy in desperate need of a hip replacement out of his bed, to do it no doubt. Not only do I pay for his legal aid, trial expenses, incarceration.. but now through ACC, I will contribute to a permanent disability payout for the rest of his natural also.... while kids born with a disability get sweet f a and schools suffer lack of funding to employ teacher aides....
Seems all fair and just to me.. NOT!

I'm with you Yungatart!!! Pity they didn't amputate at the neck. "Sorry nurse ...the knife slipped, honestly!!!" "What a shame"

**SixPackBack** · 8th January 2007, 17:23

So the police would be better of with sawn off shot guns?. Wouldn't that have stopped William's with the first shot taking the pellet spread into account.

**jrandom** · 8th January 2007, 17:25

Originally Posted by davereid

I'm sure if the cops in this case DID NOT have access to handguns, they would have taken the Bushmasters.

Bear in mind that these were general-duties cops. They probably didn't expect to be the ones that would actually encounter Burton. Their primary task was much more likely to be shepherding civilians out of the area, providing roadblocks etc. If it wasn't for their Glocks, those cops may well have been unarmed when Burton turned up.

In most police situations, a handgun on the hip makes much more sense than having to carry an assault rifle around. You have to put the rifle down to do anything, and the M4s aren't exactly friendly-looking grampa's-walnut-stock rifles to wave around in front of civilians, either.

A pistol is quickly accessible at all times if the SHTF, but doesn't get in the way when you have to do the 99.9% of random-other-stuff that cops spend their time doing. That's why most PDs have separate AOS/SWAT teams - the requirements of general public-facing policing and conflict with armed opponents are very different.

Also, have you ever tried getting in and out of a vehicle in a hurry while keeping a long gun safe, secure and ready to bring quickly into action? It's not that straightforward.

**sAsLEX** · 8th January 2007, 17:32

Originally Posted by davereid

I'm sure if the cops in this case DID NOT have access to handguns, they would have taken the Bushmasters. That would have given us a better outcome. But better again would have been a 12ga pump action !

From what I have heard they had them in the vehicle which is why they reversed their retreat and engaged Burton as they did not want him getting hold of the weapons....

Originally Posted by Fish

Also, have you ever tried getting in and out of a vehicle in a hurry while keeping a long gun safe, secure and ready to bring quickly into action? It's not that straightforward.

Depends on the vehicle, easy to jump out the back of a LAV or Mog ready and running

Maybe they need shorter carbine weapons, (maybe wrong use of term there) like the tankies Styr's with the short barrel

**davereid** · 8th January 2007, 17:32

Yeah, thats the point I'm making - a handgun is ideal for carting around if you have to be armed all the time.

But if you KNOW that today, someone might be shooting at you, I think you want a better weapon.

And if you don't train or use guns a lot, a pump action shotgun would be a better choice than a handgun.

**Lou Girardin** · 8th January 2007, 18:32

Originally Posted by Fish

if a 9mm can take off his leg, undoubtedly a .45 would have blown his entire body apart and left a nasty mess on the hillside.

Could it be that it didn't take off his leg, just did irrepairable nerve and artery damage?

**sAsLEX** · 8th January 2007, 18:36

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Could it be that it didn't take off his leg, just did irrepairable nerve and artery damage?

Or shattered bone they take limbs off for that

**jimbo600** · 8th January 2007, 18:38

Give the GDB guys these to sort out fucktards.

**Lou Girardin** · 8th January 2007, 18:52

Yeah, I can just see the 5 shot Taser cop armed with that!

**RT527** · 8th January 2007, 18:57

A thought just came to me ....A lot of people are saying the cops should be armed....

Well I would have thought this would be a given....fuck all they can do with out arms is there!!!

Cant write
cant drive
cant shoot
cant write tickets etc etc.

**Hitcher** · 8th January 2007, 18:59

Can't insert apostrophes.

**jrandom** · 8th January 2007, 19:22

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

Depends on the vehicle, easy to jump out the back of a LAV or Mog ready and running

Well, yes, of course. I was thinking of the "front seat of patrol car" scenario as it applies to general Plod.

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

Maybe they need shorter carbine weapons, (maybe wrong use of term there) like the tankies Styr's

Steyrs. No apostrophe. Consider yourself on warning...

AFAIK, the M4 is about the same length as the AUG [edit: and was primarily developed because troopers complained about having to maneuver full-length M16s around in confined vehicular spaces]

**James Deuce** · 8th January 2007, 19:33

Nah, you want a Glock 18 carbine you do.

**sAsLEX** · 8th January 2007, 19:34

Originally Posted by Fish

Steyrs. No apostrophe. Consider yourself on warning...

AFAIK, the M4 is about the same length as the AUG [edit: and was primarily developed because troopers complained about having to maneuver full-length M16s around in confined vehicular spaces]

Steyrs come in two lengths in the NZDF one where the barrel ends just after the receiver ends, past the gas plug and another with a more normal length barrel. Coupled with the bulpup design it makes the tankies version quite short