Graeme William Burton in custody

[98tls]

Seems weird that this guy got parole........its my understanding many people get turned down at there first board hearing.......for far lesser crimes than he comitted.Not sure if he was released at his first hearing or not but if he was it just makes this whole business worse...........what the hell were they thinking......

[spudchucka]

That arse hole is so lucky the cop was an armed defender who could shoot really well, a General Duty Cop would have more than likey killed him as it is easyer to shoot to kill than aim for a leg.

Get your facts right.

It was two general duties cops involved.

The reason he was shot in the leg is because at 20 - 25 metres its hard to hit anything with a glock, let alone an armed offender who is very unlikely to be standing still waiting to be shot.

It had nothing to do with the armed offenders squad having superior marksmanship skills.

[spudchucka]

Manifestly, the Parole Board were collectively incompetant.

Most probably are but in their defence they have to work within the current act.

In reality it is central govt that is to blame for arseholes like Burton being out in society.

[spudchucka]

The mythbusters said that research gathered from scene of crime officers shows that being "blown backwards" just does not happen.

I had a chat with a former south african cop recently who has considerable experience in which way a person falls when shot. Seems that almost always they will fall forward if shot in their front side. The blown backwards thing is just for hollywood.

[spudchucka]

Team Defence force, Tri-Service, we aint that far separated no longer



Maybe we discuss this somewhere else over a nice laphroaig.....



There where other options like AOS and STG that could of been utilised, people more trained to deal with the situation rather than beat cops.

It takes time to assemble and deploy those squads.

The beat cops would try and contain the subject until the specialist squad can get there.

However, if the offender forces the issue the beat cops have to deal with it. They can't just pull the STG or AOS out of a pouch on their duty belt and hide in the nearest bush while others take over.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Seems weird that this guy got parole........its my understanding many people get turned down at there first board hearing.......for far lesser crimes than he comitted.Not sure if he was released at his first hearing or not but if he was it just makes this whole business worse...........what the hell were they thinking......

now those with less petty crimes probably won't get parole because of this...

[Swoop]

He can't. He's dead. I can't speak for his family, but I think that their anger directed at the Parole Board is misguided and will not give them their son back. There is only one person to blame here, and he will soon have his day in Court.

Gaaaah!

He was shot by a General Duties cop, with a Glock, at a range of 20-25m. Bloody good shooting. Contrary to popular opinion, no organisation trains its armed officers to shoot at limbs. It is impossible to do so reliably. The part of the body that moves least when in motion is the torso. That is what they will have been aiming for.
Steam - only 3 rounds were fired, shared between two officers. One of those officers is a stellar shot.

Too bloody right!

I doubt it mate. G17s are not particularly accurate over 25m.

Tui moment here.

Personally I thought the guys did pretty bloody good.

Damn right, there!
I forsee medals being bestowed...

A handgun is not an accurate weapon.

Absolute fucking bullshit.

If you aren't familiar with a handgun you'd be lucky to hit atmosphere let alone the target.
There are a variety of grades for accuracy and competency is gained at metre ranges in single figures. 20-25m is a dream shot for a practiced pistol shooter with a Glock.

Gaaaaahh!

we will prolly have to be host to it in Parimurimu.

Where?

Bahahhaha, you could hit a man, in the torso, who is waving a shotgun at you, from 25 metres with a Glock 17? Pass us a Tui mate...

Gaaaaaahh! Who has come up with this un-obtainable 25 metre rule??? 25 metres is the COMMON distance that pistol shooters use! Some go out to 200 metres FFS.

In reality it is central govt that is to blame for arseholes like Burton being out in society.

The beat cops would try and contain the subject until the specialist squad can get there.

Using the skills and equipment they have available at the time.

[spudchucka]

Gaaaaaahh! Who has come up with this un-obtainable 25 metre rule??? 25 metres is the COMMON distance that pistol shooters use! Some go out to 200 metres FFS.

The majority of police shootings occur within 3 metres distance, thats the norm worldwide.

200 metres is a ridiculas scenario when discussing law enforcement.

[Swoop]

The majority of police shootings occur within 3 metres distance, thats the norm worldwide. 200 metres is a ridiculas scenario when discussing law enforcement.

We realise this, that is why you train at 3-5 metres. This example shows the inherrent accuracy of the tools that you use and the "innaccurate" area is the operator.
Luckily the officers concerned didn't listen to your comments that "anything over 3-5 metres = crap accuracy" when they used their handguns and fired at 25 metres... accurately.

[RT527]

So it was piss poor shooting really wasn't it?....if they would have been aiming for the Torso and got the leg, dang even i could have done that....

Bs it was....I said before and Ill say it again, when he fired if it was . 01 mm`s off flight path..ie crooked coming out of the barrel then it could be 1 to 2 feet off target at the other end...he was shooting at coa which is why he hit low and to either side of where he was shooting origanally.

then add in windage , terrain, obstacles, other targets...then you get some one who has been extremely efficient and extremely accurate to get a shot on a moving target, shit i`ve seen guys with rifles and scopes miss a deer at 80-90 metres.

[RT527]

As I said they shot it with everything from hand guns to sniper weapons. The Barrett caused the biggest movement.

At .223 round from a generic small bore hunting rifle barely marked the dummy's clothing.

Cant remember if they Tried it with a crossbow, but if you shot a target dummy with a crossbow bolt then there would be a better chance for the target to get flung back!....more energy in something thats long.

[Maha]

I doubt it mate. G17s are not particularly accurate over 25m. Quite hard to get a good shot over that distance, even in a nice controlled range environment. Add to that the stress of confronting a rampaging twat with a shotty, and possibly two bushmasters, plus the stress of having to actually shoot a person. Jeez I'm surprised there wasn't more rounds discharged. Personally I thought the guys did pretty bloody good.

A handgun is not an accurate weapon. If you aren't familiar with a handgun you'd be lucky to hit atmosphere let alone the target.

There are a variety of grades for accuracy and competency is gained at metre ranges in single figures. 20-25m is a dream shot for a practiced pistol shooter with a Glock.

Bahahhaha, you could hit a man, in the torso, who is waving a shotgun at you, from 25 metres with a Glock 17? Pass us a Tui mate...

Bs it was....I said before and Ill say it again, when he fired if it was . 01 mm`s off flight path..ie crooked coming out of the barrel then it could be 1 to 2 feet off target at the other end...he was shooting at coa which is why he hit low and to either side of where he was shooting origanally.

then add in windage , terrain, obstacles, other targets...then you get some one who has been extremely efficient and extremely accurate to get a shot on a moving target, shit i`ve seen guys with rifles and scopes miss a deer at 80-90 metres.

You gun/shootie type people are real easy targets. And so serious. But i guess you have to be serious. Cant have a non-serious person with a gun thats just rediculous. Lighten up chaps im unarmed.....

Ps: im done playing in the sandpit.....you guys are bully's....

[James Deuce]

We realise this, that is why you train at 3-5 metres. This example shows the inherrent accuracy of the tools that you use and the "innaccurate" area is the operator.
Luckily the officers concerned didn't listen to your comments that "anything over 3-5 metres = crap accuracy" when they used their handguns and fired at 25 metres... accurately.

Mate I want some of what your smoking. The guys at the pistol club get about 400 times the practice of a general duties cop. I work with a "collector" and he can do the 100m thing too, on a range without someone armed charging him down. A standard issue Glock is not a target shooter's cherished personal weapon.

We were discussing this today and he was praising the restraint of the GD folks today. I probably would have loosed off a mag and missed with every shot. I'm way more accurate with a bow. Ask RT527 about the seagull sometime. (I still feel bad about losing that aluminium shaft arrow with the nice target pile and nylon fletching that belonged to RT).

[imdying]

Gaaaaaahh! Who has come up with this un-obtainable 25 metre rule??? 25 metres is the COMMON distance that pistol shooters use! Some go out to 200 metres FFS.

I really do wonder what you've been smoking? You think the police train with pistols to shoot for limbs (or even at all) at 200 metres? You think that pistol shooters would bother using a Glock 17 for target shooting at 200 metres? Are you even aware that you're a total fucking retard with seemingly no ability to follow the thread, much less comment on the things that are relevant to it? They were shooting from 25 metres away, with weapons they (apparently according to info in this thread) train with once a year, in a high stress situation, while a man with a shotgun, was stealing an assault rifle (allegedly). Do you not think that under those conditions, with that equipment, and with that training, that 25 metres would be a reasonably difficult shot? They weren't on a range, most likely had their hearts racing, and therefore weren't in anything like conditions suitable for pulling off 200 metres shots.

ahem.

[Swoop]

The guys at the pistol club get about 400 times the practice of a general duties cop. I work with a "collector" and he can do the 100m thing too, on a range without someone armed charging him down. A standard issue Glock is not a target shooter's cherished personal weapon.

Nothing is being smoked here.
The glock is sufficient for the task. The trigger pull is rather on the robust side since it is a tupperware gun and requires the US "liability" strength trigger pull. However, it is the "nut behind the trigger" that needs to realise its capabilities. When the officer realises it is the only firearms option he/she is left with in an emergency situation, they had better be prepared for that day. Shooting at 25 metres is the norm. Shooting at 2-5 metres is rather close range and can be done unaimed if necessary.
The 200 metre comment is used to illustrate what a short barrelled firearm is actually capable of (NOT the glock, mind you...).