Graeme William Burton in custody

[Swoop]

Here we go again...

I really do wonder what you've been smoking?

You really need to be a bit more imaginitive in your opening remarks. Jim2 has preceeded you, or are you one-in-the-same?

You think the police train with pistols to shoot for limbs (or even at all) at 200 metres?

Please point out where I stated this. My comment refers to 25metres being the internationally recognised distance for competitive events and that SOME disciplines can shoot hanguns accurately at that distance. The distance that police officers train at are considerably shorter than this, so they get the mindset that this is the only distance that can be used.
Any officer attempting to shoot at "200m" would be "silly", but an officer that realises what the capabilities of a firearm are at ANY distance is better empowered, ESPECIALLY one who only has his/her glock with them at the time - which is more than likely the case in any normal day-to-day situation.

You think that pistol shooters would bother using a Glock 17 for target shooting at 200 metres?

No.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a glock at anything over 50 metres, but that's just me.
Once again, please point out where I suggested using a glock for that distance.

Are you even aware that you're a total fucking retard with seemingly no ability to follow the thread, much less comment on the things that are relevant to it?

Apparently the same amount of retardation that you have used in your post.
Are you aware that the thread has picked up recently and that as I read through it, there was the opportunity to press the "multi-quote" button and respond? Probably not.

They were shooting from 25 metres away, with weapons they (apparently according to info in this thread) train with once a year, in a high stress situation, while a man with a shotgun, was stealing an assault rifle (allegedly)

Your knowledge or re-training qualification requirements is astounding... How many officers do you talk to about their firearms capabilities?

Do you not think that under those conditions, with that equipment, and with that training, that 25 metres would be a reasonably difficult shot? They weren't on a range, most likely had their hearts racing, and therefore weren't in anything like conditions suitable for pulling off 200 metres shots.

25 metre shot? No, completely reasonable with 3 officers and the result was that a leg shot was achieved whilst probably aiming at CoM. Bloody good on them for achieving the desired result of bringing the offender to heel before he got to their own firearms.

[sAsLEX]

However, if the offender forces the issue the beat cops have to deal with it. They can't just pull the STG or AOS out of a pouch on their duty belt and hide in the nearest bush while others take over.

Understood.

How long had they been actively hunting him and when where the last reports of him in the vicinity?

They had time, and in fact AOS was in the vicinity , just bad luck these two GD guys got involved in the way they did but they got the job done, no harm no foul.

[doc]

Understood.

How long had they been actively hunting him and when where the last reports of him in the vicinity?

They had time, and in fact AOS was in the vicinity , just bad luck these two GD guys got involved in the way they did but they got the job done, no harm no foul.

Hey you should join the police and show them how. They want new cops

[sAsLEX]

Hey you should join the police and show them how. They want new cops

What and go through a basic training again?

9 months of that is enough, and into my 6th straight year of training I dont really want to take up a new profession.

I am serving my country. Are you?

[Paul in NZ]

Wadda you guys think?

Close this off?

I mean to say a mad man obsessed with guns and violence kills a bloke and shoots a couple of others less effectively and the best we can do is discuss the technical aspects of blowing bigger holes in people more efficiently. I think there are a few scary parallels here.

[The_Dover]

I am serving my country. Are you?

yes, I was sent by her vagesty the queen to keep an eye on the colonies.

[doc]

What and go through a basic training again?

9 months of that is enough, and into my 6th straight year of training I dont really want to take up a new profession.

I am serving my country. Are you?

Your just on the payrol if your still training when are you going to take some risks.

Y

[SixPackBack]

yes, I was sent by her vagesty the queen to keep an eye on the colonies.

Your from Scotland?......lucky if she talks to you norfen rabble!!....hell man thats nearly as bad as being, well um Welsh or summat

[Lou Girardin]

It's not the Parole Board's fault. They simply follow the law as written.

The trouble is that they didn't. They seemed to have tried to find reasons to release him rather than reasons to keep him inside.

[Lou Girardin]

I think Mr Swoop has no idea of the reality of law enforcement scenario shootings. As Spudly said, they are nearly all impulsive and at extremely close range. And I don't think any Police force is going to issue their cops with accurized, scope equipped handguns to shoot at 200 metres. They have rifles for that job.

[jrandom]

Here we go again...

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you shot any flavour of Glock?

I was next to a cop who had brought his service G17 to the range last month, and he kindly let me put a couple of magazines worth through it.

AFAIK, there are actually three different trigger pull weights available from Glock - the 'target', the 'standard', and the 'three million kilo NYPD liability lawsuit avoidance' settings. I expect that all NZ Police pistols have the standard trigger.

I didn't particularly like the G17's trigger or, in fact, the angle of its grip. The trigger pull weight was fine, but the three-stage safety mechanism that releases at various points throughout the pull means that it's impossible to get the same crisp letoff that a single-action pistol affords. And if you can't get a crisp, light trigger break, it's hard to set off the gun at precisely the right moment for an accurate shot.

Shooting slowly, I kept most of my rounds within the 6-ring at 25 meters.

As stated before, I have nothing but admiration for the cops who used their pistols with restraint and skill to stop Burton, as I'm sure does everyone else in this discussion.

[spudchucka]

We realise this, that is why you train at 3-5 metres. This example shows the inherrent accuracy of the tools that you use and the "innaccurate" area is the operator.
Luckily the officers concerned didn't listen to your comments that "anything over 3-5 metres = crap accuracy" when they used their handguns and fired at 25 metres... accurately.

Target shooting from your preferred comfortable stanch as vastly diffent than being suddenly placed in a position full of variables that you have no control over and where there is an offender wanting to shoot back at you.

I've seen a few olympic pistol shooting competions from time to time and I'm pretty damn sure there has never been one held over a distance of 200 metres.

At 25 metres its almost a "fill the air with lead and let god sort it out" situation.

[Squeak the Rat]

At 25 metres its almost a "fill the air with lead and let god sort it out" situation.

Which makes 3 shots, one hit a very admirable piece of work.

[spudchucka]

Understood.

How long had they been actively hunting him and when where the last reports of him in the vicinity?

They had time, and in fact AOS was in the vicinity , just bad luck these two GD guys got involved in the way they did but they got the job done, no harm no foul.

I don't know where the AOS was, obviously not where Burton was at the time.

The problem with armed incidents in large public spaces is that the offender can pop up anywhere. In this case he popped up in front of the two generalist cops. They didn't really have a choice in what their actions would be and time certainly wasn't on their side.

They did however, according to reports, initially back off and then considering the high risk to the public that Burton posed they approached him, called on him to surrender, (not sure how they would be expected to do that from 200 metres) and the rest is known.

I have no doubt that these cops will receive bravery awards for their actions that day.

[terbang]

Why should the Board not be held accountable for its actions? If a mechanic is incompetant and assembles your car wrongly, so that you crash and kill someone, the mechanic can be found guilty of manslaughter (it has happened). Why should not the Board members be thus charged? Would you say that the family of the man killed as a result of that mechanics negligence had no right to be angry at him?

I agree but unfortunatly the difference is the mechanic doesn't work for the state. Therefore he is accountable for his actions. The parole board works for the state.

"Oh the working class can kiss my arse, Ive got a job with the government at last" (and I'm not accountable for my actions).