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Thread: VTR1000 FireStorm

  1. #1
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    VTR1000 FireStorm

    Yeah, I know this has already been semi-reviewed by wkid-one, but I'm bored at work. So here goes...

    History
    The VTR1000 was released in 1997 (my model's year), presumably in response to the success of the Ducati 900 SS. Unfortunately, the Suzuki TL1000S was released at the same time, stealing much of Honda's thunder.
    The VTR was mainly developed in the US, probably due to the popularity of the Honda Hawk, which was a 650cc v-twin with a single-sided swingarm and alloy perimeter frame. The prototype SuperHawk bears a distinct resemblance to this model, but (fortunately) the production model was slightly different and less stodgy looking.

    Innovations
    Compared to the TL1000, the Honda is somewhat middle-of-the-road, lacking the EFI, USD forks and (fortunately) the rotary damper rear suspension. It also has an engine in a lower state of tune (~100HP compared to the Suzi's ~125), and slightly tamer steering dynamics: slightly longer wheelbase, less steep caster angle, slightly more trail, but some would argue this makes it easier to ride. It certainly has a reputation as a good all-rounder, compared to the 'hooligan' TL.
    Some firsts on the VTR included pannier-mounted dual radiators (also found on the VFR800), engine-case mounted swingarm pivots, the largest valves fitted to a Honda engine, and the largest carbs.

    Updates
    The VTR has been in production virtually unchanged since 1997, which sort of goes against Honda's normal policy of regular model changes every 4 years. In 2001, it did get a larger tank (up 3 litres to 19l), revised handlebar geometry (more on that later), a semi-digital dash, minor revision of the front suspension, better security, and few other unimportant cosmetic changes. In response to market pressures (and the RC45 being whipped by the Ducati in WSB), the SP1 (RC51 in US market) was released to provide a bike for production racing.

    The ride
    The Firestorm is an easy bike to ride, having no particular vices. It will pop the front wheel in the air on acceleration, but is not especially prone to headshake (and therefore tank-slappers), due to the aforementioned moderate steering geometry. All is not bliss, however, as it has less than perfect ergonomics, with a stretch to the 'bars, odd clip-on angle and a seat that becomes rather brick-like on long rides. It is also rather overgeared, and cruising at 100 km/h feels more comfortable in 4th gear than in 6th. However, this long-leggedness makes it a very relaxed tourer, as it never seems particularly busy, and is happy to be short-shifted at the torque peak rather than revved out through the gears.
    When pushed, the "tuned flex" frame (due to the engine-mounted swingarm, which is a bit lightweight) can be felt working, but it's interesting rather than alarming...
    The half-fairing gives pretty reasonable wind protection, although fitting an aftermarket screen blade is popular. Apart from not being tinted like the one on my VFR, I actually like the screen on mine, as the wind blast hits me high in the chest, taking some weight off my wrists. Being lower compared to the VFR, it also results in less wind noise. However, the first time I rode a VTR (in '97), I noted that this also directs wind down your front, if your jacket collar isn't fastened. Good in summer, I guess, as long as there's no bees innit....
    Another problem is the suspension is definitely on the budget side, having only preload and rebound adjustment at both ends (no compression damping adjustment). Furthermore, the front end is undersprung and the back oversprung for the average rider. (Doesn't bother me much, as I'm below average ).
    As standard, the brakes are marginal, as the front feels a bit spongey, and the brake brake is wooden and next to useless (made up for by excellent engine-braking).
    Fuel range is pathetic; commuting mine does less than 30 mpg, and I'm lucky to get 125km before the Red Light Of Doom glares at me.
    Gear changes are typical Honda, with a clunk into second gear (avoidable by clutchless shifting or changing while under power or at high revs), and false neutrals on high-kilometerage examples. Gear ratios are fine, apart from overall gearing being way too high.

    Reliability
    The VTR is generally fairly worry-free, more reliable than Ducatis (if uglier) but does have a few weaknesses.
    • Camchain tensioner - I dunno why Honda doesn't fit all of its bikes with gear-driven cams, because they're crap at camchains. The VTR can lunch an automatic tensioner spring in as few as 6000 km, probably due to chain whip, and the excessive back-pressure caused by engine-braking. The front cylinder is most prone to this, with the usual result being that the camchain jumps the camwheel and the valves and piston 'catastrophically interfere with another' (i.e., )
    • Wreck-you-later/Rectumfrier - this is too small, and put in a dumb position (too hot). Could last 10 years or 1 (mine lasted 6 or so).
    • Clutch - sometimes prone to slipping and/or grabbing. And squealing like a stuck pig. Easily fixed by fitting Barnett springs, or by not doing hard takeoffs. The slave cylinder seal sometimes leaks if not maintained.
    Other issues are not peculiar to VTRs or to Hondas, so not worth mentioning. For example, V-twins use a bit of oil, apparently. (Saves it getting dirty, I guess...)

    Mods
    Here are some of the current mods made to my bike, and the reasons for 'em.
    • American Performance Engineering manual camchain tensioners: Honda tensioners are crap, and my engine had already eaten one pair of valves before I bought it.
    • New Throttle Postion Sensor (TPS): The TPS has a bakelite (plastic) body, and is not too hard to break if not aligned properly when reassembling the carbs. I broke mine when adjusting the TPS to the recommended value (considerably different to stock).
    • Mufflers bafflectomied and plugged: The mufflers had been vandalised when I bought the bike, and were VERY LOUD!! I had some plugs made to quieten them down a lot and make 'em look standard. Still sounds OK, with a lurvly rumble on deceleration.
    • Dynojet kit: Bafflectomy made the carburetion too lean.
    • Custom Unifilter: Cheaper than stock airfilter, flows more air,easily maintained.
    • Shimmed needles: See two previous items.
    • New beefier R/R: OEM one failed, and was too wussy, so I replaced it with a heavy-duty one and rewired the charging system to eliminate plugs.
    • 90/130W headlight: Stock one too wussy.
    • GenMar handlebar risers: I have arthritic joints, and the standard clip-ons are too low, putting too much weight on my wrists around town. These raise the 'bars 19mm - just right.
    • 15-tooth countershaft sprocket: Standard gearing is too high, especially commuting. This gives heaps more apparent torque (and apparent speed...) It also accelerates chain wear, so next chain/sprocket change I'll put a 16T back on and a 43T rear instead.
    • Shortened drivechain: The 15T sprocket meant the wheelbase was longer, and I was nearly out of chain adjustment. Taking two links out shortened the wheelbase a lot, meaning that in conjunction with the sprocket, wheelies are more common. Ooops....
    • Braided brakelines (X2): Improved feel of the front brakes, and made bleeding easier (OEM lines have a junction and rise where bubbles gather).
    • No back mudguard: Looks?!? (I didn't do it, and my back gets sprayed with shit when it rains).
    • Fork tubes raised through the stanchions, for improved steering response (shortened wheelbase helps this too).
    • Fitted voltmeter/clock/laptimer: To monitor the ergs and the passage of time.
    Future Probable Mods
    Santa (or is that Satan?!?), could you please bring me (because my wife won't let me have them):
    - A hugger rear guard, to keep the crap off my boots and rear shock and bag.
    - New fork springs
    - An Ohlins rear shock (dream on!!)
    - A pair of aftermarket cans (Micron?): summat that sounds noisy and nice, but which are still legal
    - A modified seat (one with foam instead of wood).

    Summary
    A nice all-rounder; not the best or most powerful I've ridden, but plenty of fun, and with enough character to stop me getting bored. Certainly good value for money, and with a few mods, a pretty good ride.
    This is the sixth bike I've owned, and I've had it almost a year. During that time it's been used for almost daily commuting, with only a couple of longish rides. It's let me down only a few times: when the R/R (and battery) died, when I ran out of gas, and when I punctured the (new) rear tyre.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  2. #2
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    Good write up Firestormer. Convince MarkNZ to buy another one.

  3. #3
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    We forgot one of the key problems with the VTR's and that is the coolant leak - which Honda freely acknowledge. This was rectified on the 1999+ models. Mine bike was thankfully nearly completely trouble free (apart from shaking a wire loose that caused it to only fire on one cylinder).

    I agree entirely - thoroughly easy bike to ride and enjoy.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkid_one
    We forgot one of the key problems with the VTR's and that is the coolant leak - which Honda freely acknowledge. This was rectified on the 1999+ models.
    Ehhh... hadn't heard of that one on the VTR forums I frequent, and haven't experienced it myself.
    I also didn't mention the "Phark you - I don't like water and I'm not going out in that shite!!" problem that arose whenever I tried to ride it in the rain. On the SuperHawk forum, someone else mentioned misfiring on his VTR was due to a crack in the rubber boot on one sparkplug. Sure enough, mine had a hole/crack in the front boot and when I replaced the cap ($49!!) it seemed to cure its fear of water. Just as well - riding a badly misfiring FireStorm in a rainstorm is one of my least favourite activities.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  5. #5
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    no coolant leak mmmkay (yet)
    no wet weather issues

    new ebc discs and pads at front still using factory lines, fantastic.
    replaced cct for front cylinder

    I agree with the front suspension comments, I'm big enough that the back isn't oversprung. wkid's comments in a prior thread about racetech internals might be a way to go. The stock front springs are about twice as soft as they need to be.

  6. #6
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    So have any of you riden the TL?

    Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
    Or do you not have a preferance?

  7. #7
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    I haven't ridden a TL. When I bought my VTR it was much cheaper than the nearest TL, still had there been one about for the same money I would definitely considered it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racey Rider
    So have any of you riden the TL?

    No, but I'd very much like to. I like the way they look (apart from the bodgey looking fairing stays), the way they sound, and the extra HPs would be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIder Who's Racey
    Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
    Or do you not have a preferance?
    See above. I think the VTR looks a bit wrong, and power is good.
    However, they sell for more than the VTR, so if I saw one for the same money as a VTR, it'd be a good buy.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bungbung
    new ebc discs and pads at front still using factory lines, fantastic.
    Bungbung - you really should think about braided lines. They don't improve the power, but the feel is vastly improved. Prolly the best thing I've done to the VTR (apart from the R/R - if I hadn't done that, the bike would be in the gargre).
    Quote Originally Posted by bungbungbung
    I agree with the front suspension comments, I'm big enough that the back isn't oversprung. wkid's comments in a prior thread about racetech internals might be a way to go. The stock front springs are about twice as soft as they need to be.
    Actually, mine is fine compared to previous bikes, and I've got the settings about as good as they get. The previous owner (who was much lighter'n me), had it set up WAY too stiff. I've now got it with one notch of preload at the rear, stuff all in the front, and some minimalistic damping as per recommendations on the UK firestorm site. I suspect if I changed the fork erl it would probably revolutionise the front end, and I'm OK with the back end as is.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  10. #10
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    You will find that the factory standard front fork springs are suited to someone who weighs about 56kg - this is a fact, not bullshit - tested by Race Tech. Front spring replacements with progressives is singularly the best suspension upgrade you can do

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo750
    Good write up Firestormer. Convince MarkNZ to buy another one.


    Yup, and mine would be Matt Black with...

    MRA full tint double bubble screen
    Yellow Goodrich Braided lines front and rear
    GC Carbon Fibre hugger
    Leo Vinci or Micron Carbon Fibre Pipes
    Ventura Rack and Bag


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racey Rider
    So have any of you riden the TL?

    Knowing what you know now, Would you buy a VTR or a TL given that they were going for the same money? And why?
    Or do you not have a preferance?
    I've owned both a 2000 VTR and a 1999 TLS. They are both great but I'm afriad that my vote goes to the TL. Primarily because I always found the fork springs to be too soft on the VTR and the constant bottoming out really pissed me off, I don't think I've ever bottomed out the front end on the TL. Another reason I favour the TL is simply because of the additional rush of power. When I first rode my TL I couldn't believe how different it was to the VTR, I'd always thought they would be quite similar but they aren't. The VTR is an easier bike to ride and will never catch you unawares, the TL on the other hand can be a brute, especially at low revs in 1st or 2nd gear corners.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    I've owned both a 2000 VTR and a 1999 TLS. They are both great but I'm afriad that my vote goes to the TL. Primarily because I always found the fork springs to be too soft on the VTR and the constant bottoming out really pissed me off, I don't think I've ever bottomed out the front end on the TL. Another reason I favour the TL is simply because of the additional rush of power. When I first rode my TL I couldn't believe how different it was to the VTR, I'd always thought they would be quite similar but they aren't. The VTR is an easier bike to ride and will never catch you unawares, the TL on the other hand can be a brute, especially at low revs in 1st or 2nd gear corners.
    Well, that's pretty much what I thought would be the case.
    The front suspension thing is easily fixed with some Racetech or Progressive springs. Having said that, I don't think I've ever bottomed my forks out, so maybe they don't have stock springs?? Like I said, I think they'd be fine with a flush out and some new oil.
    But to give the VTR the same sort of power as the TL is not an easy thing, and requires $$ (higher compression pistons, new cams, extensive rejetting, full zorst system, etc. etc.) Easier to just buy a different bike, like the TL or an SP1/2/3. Or a 996/998/999....
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  14. #14
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    Stock rider weighs 56kg eh?

    That'll be my problem then, I'm double 56kg...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    Well, that's pretty much what I thought would be the case.
    The front suspension thing is easily fixed with some Racetech or Progressive springs. Having said that, I don't think I've ever bottomed my forks out, so maybe they don't have stock springs?? Like I said, I think they'd be fine with a flush out and some new oil.
    But to give the VTR the same sort of power as the TL is not an easy thing, and requires $$ (higher compression pistons, new cams, extensive rejetting, full zorst system, etc. etc.) Easier to just buy a different bike, like the TL or an SP1/2/3. Or a 996/998/999....
    I loved my VTR but that was the one thing that irked me.

    One other difference I forgot to mention is the slipper clutch on the TL. I actually prefered the VTR without the slipper clutch because I like the strong engine braking. The only down side was the chatter when you are really stamping down through the gears.

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