The firearm thread

[jrandom]

To own a 50 round banana mag you need to have an E cat licence.

Indeed.

There is, however, a funny little legal loophole that means that magazines, on their own, do not require a firearms licence to purchase.

One can, for instance, buy an A-cat L1A1 and then go straight out and anonymously purchase a standard 20-round magazine for it, thereby becoming instantly naughty in the sight of the law with very little effort.

I'm sure nobody would ever commit such a heinous crime, naturally.

[doc]

The whole 'wounded soldiers take up more resources' argument was simply never a factor in the establishment of the 5.56x45 cartridge standard. It might make some sort of intuitive sense during armchair analysis, but it didn't have any influence on actual military planning.

Exactly there seems to be a lot of armchair experts. How many military types know much about ballistics, civilian shooters do and are generally better shots but their shooting doesn't involve being all dressed up with all the crap you carry wearing SOP equipment, and they're are sometimes heaving their lungs out returning fire with targets that are shooting back. Not taking the piss out of anyone just stating facts. Military usually develop something with extensive funds and civilians sometimes take it to the next level being shooting, fitness, skydiving, cooking, etc etc. Superman is fiction if you believe all the stuff in books about Special Forces your are a being a bit naive. There are the odd exceptions but we are all mortal. Nice to believe in McGivyer tho. Next some one will believe that the CSI stuff is real and happens everday.

[Dai]

Indeed.

There is, however, a funny little legal loophole that means that magazines, on their own, do not require a firearms licence to purchase.

One can, for instance, buy an A-cat L1A1 and then go straight out and anonymously purchase a standard 20-round magazine for it, thereby becoming instantly naughty in the sight of the law with very little effort.

I'm sure nobody would ever commit such a heinous crime, naturally.

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?

[Wolf]

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?

Wicked-arsed question, Dai.

Obviously, the minute you bung a 25- or 50-rnd mag in the semi it becomes an MSSA, but what about when the rifles and mags are locked seperately away at home (as per the law)?

Is the onus then upon the constabulary to prove your intent to use the 50 rnd mag in the semiauto? Do they have to catch you in the act of having the 50-rnd in the semi (instant breech of licence) or is the mere possession of a >15 rnd mag (that is capable of fitting) enough?

[scumdog]

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?

Only if you get caught with one of the big mags in your 10/22.

Can't understand the logic of law makers.
A 10/22 with a 15 shot mag is o.k.
One with a 10 shot mag and free-sranding pistol grip is not. WTF??


(Remember the Mossberg (I think) that and a free-standing fold down fore-end and a ten shot mag,? I guess they count as a MSSA.)

[Wolf]

A 10/22 with a 15 shot mag is o.k.
One with a 10 shot mag and free-sranding pistol grip is not. WTF??

That's coz people can be scared to death and a free-standing pistol grip is fukn scary!

WTF am I doing? I don't even like Tui.

A mate had a Sterling M-16 lookalike in .22lr - 15 shot mag (16 if you chambered a round and then reloaded the mag) hidden up inside a fake non-detachable .223-style mag.

When the MSSA law came in he had a rifle with a free-standing pistol grip and what appeared to be a whacking-great 10-shot .223 mag ("holds, or appears to hold, more than 7 rounds of centrefire ammunition") and a flash suppressor.

As he had no desire to get an MSSA endorsement just to own a rifle that bore a resemblance to a real MSSA, he butchered the fake mag - cut it away leaving only the strap at the back that held the magazine clip and release button - so that the 15-shot .22lr mag was now visible. He cut off the flash suppressor and then grabbed wire, chicken wire and automotive bog from which he fashioned a non-removeable (unless you want to utterly fuck the stock) bridge between the bottom of the hand grip to the underside of the shoulder stock, thus turning the shoulder-stock-and-pistol-grip into a "hole-through" stock (sometimes called a "target stock").

The rifle now looks like an utter abortion - but at least it is no longer an "MSSA" with a terrifying and deadly pistol grip and fake 10-round centrefire mag...

My 10-shot 7.62x39 SKS mag was cut down by the local gunsmith - to 5 shots. When I asked why, he replied "so it's visibly obvious that it does not exceed 7 rounds."

At least his job of cutting the mag down looks good.

[Brett]

I have family i South Africa that need to get rid of a few weapons, mostly hunting rifles (.308 WInchester, .303 British, 30-06 Rifle and a .22 Long Rifle with Ivory Handle that is nearly a hundred years old), but also a custom made .357 magnum revolver that used to be my dads. How hard is it to get them into NZ? i figure the rifles will be easy, but is there any way to get teh revolver is without a small arms licence(I plan to get one, but it takes time!)

Feedback??

Cheers

Brett

[Wolf]

I have family i South Africa that need to get rid of a few weapons, mostly hunting rifles (.308 WInchester, .303 British, 30-06 Rifle and a .22 Long Rifle with Ivory Handle that is nearly a hundred years old), but also a custom made .357 magnum revolver that used to be my dads. How hard is it to get them into NZ? i figure the rifles will be easy, but is there any way to get teh revolver is without a small arms licence(I plan to get one, but it takes time!)

Feedback??

Cheers

Brett

My understanding is that a C endorsement is designed to cover non A-cat weapons that have sentimental value - such as heirlooms.

I'm not sure on all the criteria to get a C-cat for a single pistol but I'd bet that a proper pistol safe bolted to the floor and approved by the arms officer would be a part of it.

[Dai]

I am a strange person and have actually read the Police officers guide to the Firearms code. All 180 odd pages of it and to answer my own question.

Yes I am a devious bastard I'd already looked it up.

If Own both rifles and am in POSSESION of a high capacity magazine capable of fitting the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat, then I am guilty of an offense.

Its not the use of such a magazine but the possesion of it and the possible use.

How about getting a speeding ticket and banned fron riding because you bought a bike capable of exceeding the speed limit.

Not the actuallity of doing it but because you have the capability to do so.


Now for another question. I'm full of them.

Suppose I have an accident on my bike and damage my shoulder so much that it is impossible for me to raise a hunting rifle properly or manipulate a bolt action.

I do have limited movement and wish to carry on my sport of target shooting.

Can I use a 7 shot semi auto rifle with a pistol grip?

I do not have an E cat and have no need for one as I only need a 7 shot fullbore.

Surely if I am denied the use of this style rifle then the authorities have denied me my basic human right to the pursuit of enjoyment and happiness.

What happens in a case like this? As the law stands now I would be denied my sport because of my disability. Totally against the Human Rights Commission of which NZ is a signatory. Also under ACC i could be supplied by a pistol grip stock by this dept of the government to assist me in my chosen sport.

The firearms authorities would be in contravention of loads of laws both domestic and international.

Cat amongst the pigeons

Come back to me with your thoughts.

[Dai]

I have family i South Africa that need to get rid of a few weapons, mostly hunting rifles (.308 WInchester, .303 British, 30-06 Rifle and a .22 Long Rifle with Ivory Handle that is nearly a hundred years old), but also a custom made .357 magnum revolver that used to be my dads. How hard is it to get them into NZ? i figure the rifles will be easy, but is there any way to get teh revolver is without a small arms licence(I plan to get one, but it takes time!)

Feedback??

Cheers

Brett

Not too hard Brett.

All you would need is alicenced B Cat holder to apply for the import of the revolver. As long as it is on the allowed list of firearms and has a barrel no less than 4" then there should be no real dificulty.

That person would have to hold it on their licence and in their possesion until you obtain a B cat, then it could be transfered over to you. Same could be done with the armourer of a pistol club. They can hold a pistol for you. You can use it under club supervision until you get your licence.

[Wolf]

How about getting a speeding ticket and banned fron riding because you bought a bike capable of exceeding the speed limit.

Not the actuallity of doing it but because you have the capability to do so.

OI! STFU, will ya! Never NEVER make comments like this, especially not just after indicating there is already a precedent in another part of NZ law.

The gummint is quite capable of fucking us over without you putting ideas in their pointed little heads...

[Dai]

OI! STFU, will ya! Never NEVER make comments like this, especially not just after indicating there is already a precedent in another part of NZ law.

The gummint is quite capable of fucking us over without you putting ideas in thir pointed little heads...

Potent little idea isnt it !!!

I will STFU as you so elequently put it as I do afree they have enough ideas to stuuf us with already.


SSSHHHHH This thread is just for us.

[Wolf]

SSSHHHHH This thread is just for us.

Government spies are everywhere....


Want some tin foil?

[Dai]

Government spies are everywhere....


Want some tin foil?

Yes but first can I turn the music up and the taps (fawcets for you septics) on full.

[scumdog]

I've got a pump-action with a 18 shot mag, pistol-grip and laser sight BUT FOR SOME REASON IS NOT RESTRICTED.
Yet my 5-SHOT semi-auto with flash supressor needs an E-cat licence?????

Good old NZ Govt, run by idiots that we pay!!!!