The firearm thread

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunt...-195189909.htm

Chris had some of these babies the other day, pretty handy in spotting your shots

-Indy

[The Pastor]

looks like I have a little pump action, can take the big 3.5's too

[Mr Merde]

looks like I have a little pump action, can take the big 3.5's too

What make?

Bring it out sometime and we will show you how to use it.

Dont have a clay thrower unfortunately but watch this space.......,



I was informed on Xmas day that I am a founding member of a new shooting club.

Ever since the Ardmore Ranges closed to civilians, we shooters in the southern part of Auckland havent had many places to shoot.

Last March a group of us "Cowboy Action Shooters" decided to get together and start a "Cowboy " club.

I havent heard much since ( they had the wrong mobile number for me).

Things have progressed. We have a property on a 3 year revolving lease (the owner is pro shooting). The powers that be have had a look and deemed it safe and will, subject it to having a few improvements, issue a licence as a pistol range.

We have approached a charitable body and they are willing to entertain the idea of granting us some cash with which to develop this range.

All we need to do now is approach the local council for resourse consent. Not the council I work for but one of the adjacent ones. I'm going to talk to those persons in my council who give resorce consent and se if they have any contacts with this other council. If I've learnt one thing in life its not what you know but whom you know. Contacts are everything.

The range will consist of 4 "bays". Each 20 metres wide by 50 metres deep. Two will be set up for Cowboy Action Shooting and two will be for other disciplines (changable).

We have permission to run clay pigeon shoots on this land also. Unfortunately there are no long range facilities but on a personal note I have 1000 + metres out my back door for that purpose.

We are going to be affiliated to the NZPA but we will have a limited membership. Reason being that we are really pissed off with the political bullshit that always occurs when an organisation gets too large.

The range is going to be open to non members on a "green fee" basis. These "green fees" will assist us in paying for the lease.

As you can tell I am very, very excited with this new development as it has been getting harder and harder to find a reasonably priced club with which to keep up the terms of my B cat licence. I was getting so disheartened that I contemplated surrendering my B cat and selling the handguns.

All changed now.

On another note I am off to Kaikohe on Auckland Anniversary weekend for a CAS competition. With my lack of training I will shoot like shit but what they hell at least I will get to burn powder.


Chris

[Drunken Monkey]

Ol' Ben Franklin is reputed to have suggested that the army should go back to bows and arrows as they were faster and more accurate than muskets and had a longer range than bayonets...

IIRC he was contrasting the ROF of the native's bows with that of the Colonial Army's muskets.

If true, Ben didn't think that one through very well. Or he was just being facetious.

[Wolf]

I was informed on Xmas day that I am a founding member of a new shooting club.

Excellent news, Chris.

[Mr Merde]

If true, Ben didn't think that one through very well. Or he was just being facetious.

Not too sure of that. If you look at the methods that were employed for musketry in the late 18th to the early 19th century you can understand his thinking.

Traditionally an army relied on mass volleys of fire to be effective. Most muilitary muskets were smooth bore, large calibre firearms. I think (from memory) that a trained British soldier could get off about 5-6 shots a min in volley fire. In Agincourt (400 years earlier) the Welsh archers could loose approximately the same number of arows. Just think, 5000 archers firing 6 arrows per min means that in just 1 min there were 30,000 arrows in flight. Multiply that by the 10-15 min that the French knights charge took and now you are talking 300,000-450,000 arrows. A very effective barrage.

Now going back to Ben Franklins idea. Most firearms of the time were made in America but their constituant parts were imported from Europe. So there was a problem with getting the makings for the firearms. America at the time had a large number of gunsmiths but due to cost they imported most of their lockworks and barrels. She didnt have a large arms making industrry till after the War of Independance, when the fledgling government set up such places as the Federal Arms factory at Springfield.

Transportation of arms, powder and shot was a major logistical exercise for any commanding officer of an army of the time. Each soldier would have carried up to 60 shot (bloody heavy if of .50 calibre or larger).

The American army consisted of mostly militia. They armed themselves with whatever they had to hand. Mostly hunting firearms. Teir strenght lay in the tactics of "hit and run". George Washington lost more "traditional " battles than he won. Especially in the early days. If England werent having troubles in India and Europe at the time they would have been able to send over more troops and higher trained troops. This would have caused a reversal in the fortunes of the Continental Army.


So looking at these points old Ben's idea wasnt so bad. Arrows were silent. They could be fashioned from local material. They were not too heavy, an archer could easily have the same range as a musket of the time, in light of the tactics used. The hit and run tactics of the militia would have been just as effective if not more so. No powder smoke with which to identify the direction of fire.

This is only my thoughts on the subject.


Chris

[The Pastor]

hey chirs good luck with your club, if you need any CAD plans drawn up, let me know.

this is my new shottie
http://www.guncity.co.nz/12ga-stoege...idp216566.html

[Mr Merde]

hey chirs good luck with your club, if you need any CAD plans drawn up, let me know.

this is my new shottie
http://www.guncity.co.nz/12ga-stoege...idp216566.html

Looks good. Better bring it out one day.

For bunny shooting I would suggest the use of #4 shot. Ive shot turkeys with #7 and you have to be real close. #4 will give you a bit more distance.

If you pick up some shot and some primers, bring them out to my place and I will teach you how to reload them. I have a 12 gauge press set up in the shed.

Chris

[Wolf]

According to my research, soldiers were drilled to 4 per minute with a musket and they fired at that rate to deliver the most devastating effect - they all fired at the same time to maximise the chances of someone being hit by that volley of shot. Maintaining a uniform rate of fire was of paramount importance in traditional battles.

Some people could load and fire a musket faster than 4 per minute but they did not fire at that rate in traditional battle. Rifles were even slower to load and fire.

A skilled archer has a far higher rate of fire than 4-6 per minute:
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/...englongbow.htm

For its day the longbow possessed both long range and accuracy, though seldom both at once. Scholars estimate the longbow's range at between 180 to 270 yards. It is unlikely however, that accuracy could be ensured beyond 75-80 yards. At longer ranges, the preferred tactic to unleash volleys of arrows at masses of enemy troops. During the 14th and 15th centuries, English archers were expected to shoot ten "aimed" shots per minute during battle. A skilled archer would be capable of around twenty shots. As the typical archer was provided with 60-72 arrows, this permitted three to six minutes of continuous fire.

Modern Olympic archery events are shot at 70 metres, wherein you are expected to hit a 6.1cm-wide "10-ring" often enough to beat the other competitors - though not at 20 shots a minute.

An arrow is also reusable once extracted from the target - in addition to the advantages of "silence" (compared with a firearm, anyway) and lack of smoke as mentioned by Chris.

[The Pastor]

Looks good. Better bring it out one day.

For bunny shooting I would suggest the use of #4 shot. Ive shot turkeys with #7 and you have to be real close. #4 will give you a bit more distance.

If you pick up some shot and some primers, bring them out to my place and I will teach you how to reload them. I have a 12 gauge press set up in the shed.

Chris

aprantly its pretty shit, thats why i got it free

[Mr Merde]

aprantly its pretty shit, thats why i got it free

Free is good.

How is it "pretty shit"?

Is it broken or does it just handle badly?

There may be things we can do to make it work better if it is handling badly.

Most things that are broken can be fixed.

Cosmetics dont matter that much. I would prefer a good reliable, mechanically sound firearm that shot well to a beautiful piece of artwork that didnt.

Chris

[The Pastor]

well im not sure why he said it was pretty shit, - he didnt say, was hoping to get rid of it.

I think he was refering "pretty shit" as to his other shotguns. time will tell. - I could pop out some eveing this week with the shot and primers - just tell me when it suits.

[Mr Merde]

well im not sure why he said it was pretty shit, - he didnt say, was hoping to get rid of it.

I think he was refering "pretty shit" as to his other shotguns. time will tell. - I could pop out some eveing this week with the shot and primers - just tell me when it suits.

Any time. I get home about 5:30pm most days.

Would take about 10 min to show you how to load shotgun and you could probably load 50-80 rounds an hour after that.

I have some AS30N powder. You may need AS50 if you are using #4 shot.

Primers run areabout $10 per hundred. I have lots of wads and cases so dont worry about getting them. #4 shot or #7 (bird) not sure how much that is but it can be expensive, ring reloder supplies in Onehunga. They sell it.

Chris

[The Pastor]

Any time. I get home about 5:30pm most days.

Would take about 10 min to show you how to load shotgun and you could probably load 50-80 rounds an hour after that.

I have some AS30N powder. You may need AS50 if you are using #4 shot.

Primers run areabout $10 per hundred. I have lots of wads and cases so dont worry about getting them. #4 shot or #7 (bird) not sure how much that is but it can be expensive, ring reloder supplies in Onehunga. They sell it.

Chris

hows thursday about 7pm?

[ManDownUnder]

Looks good. Better bring it out one day.

For bunny shooting I would suggest the use of #4 shot. Ive shot turkeys with #7 and you have to be real close. #4 will give you a bit more distance.

If you pick up some shot and some primers, bring them out to my place and I will teach you how to reload them. I have a 12 gauge press set up in the shed.

Chris

LOL you go chap! 3 or 4 shot is fine on the bunnies (says he having gone through a slab of them last Easter... and a slab the Easter before...). 4 is good and gives a higher shot density for the ones on the run.

#7 is just painful to them - wounding them and aften making them run faster