The firearm thread

[ManDownUnder]

cheers guys - got it sorted now. Me and little Mr man are off on an adventure in a few weeks with a man named Chris...

[The Pastor]

i have the norinco jw15, but its probably too big?

[wbks]

I keep reading little bits about certain rifles not being able to shoot a certain type of ammo even though it's the same caliber. I can see why you wouldn't want to shoot supersonic on a silenced rifle, but why not certain types of ammo for any other?

[jono035]

The only things you really have to worry about are +P loadings for pistols and the distinction between sport cartridges like the .308 winchester and their military counterparts the 7.62x51 NATO. Either cartridge will chamber in a rifle designed for either cartridge, but the military cartridge develops much higher pressure (more powerful round) so a 7.62x51 NATO cartridge in a .308 winchester rifle is dangerous...

The other distinction is for semi-auto rifles. Some semi-auto pistols/rifles don't feed subsonic ammo well because there isn't enough energy to cycle the bolt. This can be fixed by lightening the bolt/installing a softer return spring...

With target barrels on .22s, some have rifling running right back to the chamber, so the bullet gets started into the rifling by the bolt closing. Slightly oversized bullets like subsonic ammo can cause the bolt not to close properly.

The first one is something to be careful of, the second 2 are nothing but annoying.

[wbks]

I see... So I'm having trouble finding places to shoot... Longer range shooting just interests me more, but I can only find up to 50 meter ranges on the net. Theres only a 350 meter public domain paddock down the road but there's no hill or anything behind it and people probably wouldn't like a rifle booming so close. Wish I lived on some land around the coromandel or something!

[jono035]

Yeah, I'd love to do more long range shooting, but .22LR at 50-100M definitely still has its challenges... If you have a deerstalkers range near you, they should have longer ranges?

This is my target gun, Ruger 10/22... Bushnell 4-24x50 scope with adjustable objective, Green Mountain 18" Bull Barrel, Volquartsen aftermarket trigger/action components, harris bipod.

Lot of fun to shoot, I can get it down to 2" groups at 100m but it gets pretty ammo dependent quite quickly.

[Drunken Monkey]

Forget a military rifle if accuracy is number one.

Get a nice .223.

I hear Savage are pretty good for value

Edit: I see you linked to a Savage Stevens rifle. See if you can get one with the accu-trigger, it's adjustable

-Indy

True, he didn't specify high accuracy first up, just wanted a reasonably sized cal that wasn't expensive. Pretty much leaves a few bolt action options to keep the cost below $1K for the rifle.

My cruddy old .243 still shoots very straight, despite the condition of the stock I have no trouble hitting things that don't move at pretty much any range I come across on the farm. The fact that I can't hit moving targets as often is due to my lack of skill than any shortcomings of the rifle.

The parker hale cost me $700. I just use off the shelf ammo, $38 for 20 rounds. Maybe I could get cheaper but I'm used to these federals and they are consistent enough for me. Dunno what quality you'd be looking at for under $1 per round though mate. In the end $2 or $3 a round is nothing for me, I wouldn't fire more than 25-30 rounds a whole trip and that's including the ones I waste. I probably only fire about 10-12 "shots in anger" at the most.

The only thing is you pretty much get what you pay for.

[wbks]

Nice! Did the barrel make much of a difference?
edit: Yea, drunken monkey, I'm seeing that now, and pretty much am looking at a savage. But looking at ammo off the shelf of 308 300 win mag are pretty much the same and the fact that there is no price diff in buying the actual rifle I'm tempted to just buy the win mag... But I can't help but think it would be a little like a dude that can't ride yet but turns up on the latest hayabusa lol Must be the gun equivalent of a squid?

[jono035]

Must be the gun equivalent of a squid?

Yeah, thats pretty much where I'm at with it all still... Just make sure you're familiar with the rifle (spend a half hour playing with it, working the bolt, inserting/removing the mag etc.) and if you've got the right attitude and can listen to advice then noone will care...

Drunken Monkey: It sounds like wbks wants to do more target shooting than farm shooting, so would probably go through ammo a bit quicker, hence the earlier suggestions about reloading with a cheapish press...

wbks: The barrel is the single biggest improvement on the gun. It completely changes it from a hunting/plinking gun to a bench-rest tack driver. It weighs a ton and makes the gun very nose heavy though. I shoot better freehand with my $300 stainless bolt-action Marlin... That said I've taken it out possuming a couple of times...

[jono035]

By the way wbks, dunno whereabouts you're based, but if you're ever in auckland hit me up if you fancy a blast with the .22s or pistols at the CSI range. Could be keen for a wander out to the Auckland deerstalkers range too, haven't been out there yet but wouldn't mind checking it out. Seems the only open 22 sundays throughout the year though, so not sure what that timing is like. They have outdoor 50/100/200m ranges though.

[wbks]

Was the barrel a different twist or just better quality? And this might sound a little funny, but can the average bolt action (the stevens/savage 200) completely break down and go back together without any tools, or what? Don't laugh... Got any better suggestions for a 223+ rifle?

I'm by paeroa, would definitely like a go on either! Not sure if there are restrictions on age for pistols, though? I'm 16

[jono035]

Don't laugh...

You'll never catch me laughing at an honest question from someone who will listen to the answer. And that's definitely not a stupid question.

The twist rate is the same as stock I believe, it's just the extra material that makes the difference. The smaller/lighter barrels bend and vibrate a lot as the bullet is moving down them, so the actual angle the bullet comes out of the barrel on varies. The more metal there is in the barrel, the stiffer it is and the better the accuracy. Not sure why the bigger rifles don't have the same issue but at a guess I'd say faster bullet means they leave the barrel before the vibrations can really set in.

As for breaking it down it is pretty gun-dependent, but most you can remove the bolt without any tools at all which is usually good enough for routine maintenance. Can be a bit trickier if you want to pull the trigger and bolt completely to pieces, but normally possible with a minimum set of tools. Screwdrivers and allen keys are really the extent of it, and those are things you should have anyway! Either way, if you're dropping the best part of a k on the gun, the tools to maintain it won't make a difference. Don't forget to budget for a gun bag or hard case as well as a cleaning kit (solvent/oil/rod/cloth patches). Should be about an extra $100 for all that.

Well Paeroa is a decent hike away, but if you're in Auckland for whatever then drop me a line.

As long as you're supervised with pistols and aren't doing anything questionable, you're fine. Basically it amounts to not getting over-excited and always keeping the barrel pointed within the range safety envelope. Attitude is more important than age to be sure.

As for rifle suggestions I'd be pretty well useless, number of times I've shot any rifles bigger than a .22 are countable on one hand.

Out of interest have you shot much before and what calibres?

[wbks]

At friends farms etc every once in a while with .22's, a go or two on 12ga clay birds and half an hour (maybe more, not sure) with a 308 a while ago. Wasn't really familiar with guns at the time, but looking at some of the old 303's on trademe, I'm pretty sure I've shot a few times with that, also. Nah, If I've got nothing to do (which is most of the time around here) than it's not really that far.

[scumdog]

Also fat barrels don't warm up as quick as skinny ones.

and a hot barrel has a different p.o.i to a cold one.

[jono035]

Yeah, clay birds are fun... I'd love to get into that as well... Only done it once, probably 10 years ago now lol.

I figure centrefire rifle is fine if you've got the space to do it or are near a range with good opening hours. Otherwise you're gonna be finding it tough. If you've got access to that mates farm to go shooting reasonably often then make the most of it. See if you can get a semi-permanent target butte and shooting area set up etc.

I'd love to be shooting a .308 at 200m targets, that'd be great fun. That isn't really a possibility for me while I'm in Auckland though, and buying a gun that I can only use every couple of months when I head up to my parents place is a bit much. For me I think I'd get more enjoyment out of shooting 100-200 rounds of .22 ammo whenever I feel like it than I would shooting 20-30 rounds of centrefire ammo once a month.

At least, that's why I ended up with my last purchase being a .22 pistol...

And yeah, I guess it probably seems closer when you're actually in Paeroa and bored!