The firearm thread

**Mr Merde** · 3rd July 2009, 10:01

Very quiet today.

**The Pastor** · 3rd July 2009, 10:07

Originally Posted by mr merde

im impressed.

Yes it was the original round for the spencer repeating rifle. Later went to 56-52 then 56-50 and 56-44

there have been hundreds of rimfire rounds. All but the humble .22 have gone. Saying that the .22 is the oldest, dates from 1850, and is basically unchanged since apart from the powder it uses.

The popular handgun known as a deringer uo was in .41 rimfire.
Colt made a couple. The henry and the 1866 winchester were rimfire rounds.

There is reallly nothing new in firearms and their munitions. I was reading a magazine a few months back and it was explaining that all the "new" calibres were nothing more than rebirths of older wilcats or less popular ones , given new names.

Our basic revolver deisign goes back2 hundred years. Colt really only invented the method of turning the cylinder. As for semi auto pistols where would we be without the man himself john moses browning.

The french were using bolt action rifles in the 1860's, machine guns go back to the mid 1880's, submachineguns back to the early 1900's

lever rifles back to 1850's with the volcanic pistol which became winchester.

Single shot breech loading back to the late 1790's (the fergusson fifle)

our priming system to the 1880's (boxer from the uk and berdan from the us, we predominately use the boxer system now)

black powder to the chinese 2500 years ago and modern powder to the 1860's

what have we added? Modern machining and materials. Not a lot else.

To know the history of something gives makes you wonder at how little we have reallky progressed and developed.

Chris

well that and accuracy.

**Wolf** · 3rd July 2009, 10:21

Originally Posted by renegade master

well that and accuracy.

Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...

**Indiana_Jones** · 3rd July 2009, 12:12

Originally Posted by Wolf

Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...

This is the firearm thread, not the fishing one!

-Indy

**The Pastor** · 3rd July 2009, 12:40

Originally Posted by Wolf

Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...

your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

**Indiana_Jones** · 3rd July 2009, 12:52

Originally Posted by renegade master

your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

You've opened a can of worms now lol

Depends on the make etc?

-Indy

**Mr Merde** · 3rd July 2009, 13:30

Originally Posted by renegade master

your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

No.

They were as accurate, and given that in those days your very life could be dependant upon knowing how to shoot, there were scores achieved that are on par with today. We havent surpassed those shooters of yesteryear in any proportion to our technological improvements.

In shotgunning. Adolf Tupperwain shot 10,000 2" blocks of wood thrown into the air and only missed 9 of them. This has never been beaten.

Ed McGivern in 1935 fired his revolver 6 times in 45/100ths of a second. All rounds were grouped in a 1" group.

Elmer Keith used to shoot jackrabbits at 400-600 yards with a 4 inch barreled revolver.

Billy Dixon shot an Indian off his horse at a range of 1500 yards with a .50 buffalo rifle.

We have become obsessed with having the latest toys and addons for our shooting. Whereas in previous times these toys were unheard of and money was scarce. You learnt to shoot with wat you had to the best of that weapons capability.

I have about 20 firearms and there are some I havent shot more than a couple of hundred rounds through. I dont know the gun. I cant call my shots with them.

When you have only one firearm and are expected to feed your family with it then you learn how it shoots or your family goes hungry.

In a time of war you better know your firearm or you will probably wind up dead.

Chris

**Indiana_Jones** · 3rd July 2009, 13:38

We all know the Mosin is the most accurate rifle there is.

Even if it misses, the shock-wave will still knock the target over

-Indy

**The Pastor** · 3rd July 2009, 13:45

No.

They were as accurate, and given that in those days your very life could be dependant upon knowing how to shoot, there were scores achieved that are on par with today. We havent surpassed those shooters of yesteryear in any proportion to our technological improvements.

well weight reduction and reliability has gone way up, no more rust or swollen stocks.

In shotgunning. Adolf Tupperwain shot 10,000 2" blocks of wood thrown into the air and only missed 9 of them. This has never been beaten.

Well I shot 10/10 clay targets the other day

Ed McGivern in 1935 fired his revolver 6 times in 45/100ths of a second. All rounds were grouped in a 1" group.

there are many guns that can easily better it today

Elmer Keith used to shoot jackrabbits at 400-600 yards with a 4 inch barreled revolver.

thats urban legend, how could he see that far? I cant even see the .22 targets at 25m!

Billy Dixon shot an Indian off his horse at a range of 1500 yards with a .50 buffalo rifle.

again urban legend.

We have become obsessed with having the latest toys and addons for our shooting. Whereas in previous times these toys were unheard of and money was scarce. You learnt to shoot with wat you had to the best of that weapons capability.

I think alot of gun nerds are around (Richard) that conform to that rule, but a lot of hunters are not like that at all, just look at all those bastardized bush beaters on tm. accurate to 50m on a pig sized target!

I have about 20 firearms and there are some I havent shot more than a couple of hundred rounds through. I dont know the gun. I cant call my shots with them.

When you have only one firearm and are expected to feed your family with it then you learn how it shoots or your family goes hungry.

In a time of war you better know your firearm or you will probably wind up dead.

Chris

I think in modern war, the chances of close range combat will be slim.

**Mr Merde** · 3rd July 2009, 13:46

Originally Posted by Indiana_Jones

We all know the Mosin is the most accurate rifle there is.

Even if it misses, the shock-wave will still knock the target over

-Indy

And if it doesnt then all the pieces that fall off and get propelled through the air will always get something.

Well at least that seems to be how yours work

**Indiana_Jones** · 3rd July 2009, 13:53

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

And if it doesnt then all the pieces that fall off and get propelled through the air will always get something.

Well at least that seems to be how yours work

Gets the job done, doesn't it?

lol

-Indy