The firearm thread

[wbks]

Yeah, it is pretty good. Few oddities in it but all in all a hell of a lot better than your average movie for realism...

Yea pretty good movie. I was just wondering, though... I thought with really top of the line rifles and skilled shooters, sub-moa is consistently shot at 1000 yards, rather than inch and a half like is bragged about in the movie?

Something else I have been wondering... How does someone make a very important and hard shot cold bore?

[sAsLEX]

Yea pretty good movie. I was just wondering, though... I thought with really top of the line rifles and skilled shooters, sub-moa is consistently shot at 1000 yards, rather than inch and a half like is bragged about in the movie?

Something else I have been wondering... How does someone make a very important and hard shot cold bore?

moa at 1000 yards is a ten inch circle as moa = minute of angle. Therefore the greater the distance the larger the angle, cheers Pythagoras!

Mil and MOA Range Formulas for Different Combinations of Reticles, Units of Height, and Distance to Target.



Height of Target (yards) x 1000 = Distance to Target (yards)
............. mils

Height of Target (inches) x 27.78 = Distance to Target (yards)
.............mils

Height of Target (inches) x 25.4 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............mils

Height of Target (meters) x 1000 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............mils...............

Height of Target (cm) x 10 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............mils

Height of Target (inches) x 95.5 = Distance to Target (yards)
...............moa

Height of Target (inches) x 87.32 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............moa

Height of Target (meters) x 3437.75 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............moa

Height of Target (cm) x 34.37 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............moa

Height of Target (inches) x 100 = Distance to Target (yards)
.............s- moa

Height of Target (inches) x 91.44 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............s- moa

Height of Target (meters) x 3600 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............s- moa

Height of Target (cm) x 36 = Distance to Target (meters)
.............s- moa

[wbks]

Oh, I thought it was just an inch as standard, but I have only heard this off of 100 meter shots so you can see how I got the wrong idea... Anyway, I can recall reading that there was a rifle tested (not target, .308 nato police issue or something) that was either getting sub moa or around one inch (once again, I thought MOA was an inch so I'm not sure). Considering 10 and a half inches at a little under a kilometer doesn't sound very accurate for miliatary/police sniping, I'm assuming it was under an inch at that range... Does that sound right?

[sAsLEX]

Oh, I thought it was just an inch as standard, but I have only heard this off of 100 meter shots so you can see how I got the wrong idea... Anyway, I can recall reading that there was a rifle tested (not target, .308 nato police issue or something) that was either getting sub moa or around one inch (once again, I thought MOA was an inch so I'm not sure). Considering 10 and a half inches at a little under a kilometer doesn't sound very accurate for miliatary/police sniping, I'm assuming it was under an inch at that range... Does that sound right?

The Remington 700P will shoot 0.5 moa out of the box but sub moa claims only really apply at a certain range as ballistics change considerably as the projectile heads down range.

Some projectiles will stay supersonic out beyond 1000m where others will drop through the transonic zone before that, and others take a few hundred metres before the projectile stabilises fully after leaving the barrel.

A human torso is about 10 inches across....

[Mr Merde]

Had a look today and have a list of all weapons in the NZDF and their NSNs, the "military pattern free-standing pistol grip" of the M16 is an individual item and has its own NSN!

Need to check the classification of this information first before posting though.

Oh you beauty. It lkooks like the police have been selling the shooters of NZ a bill of goods.

They have been making upo their own laws for as long as the last firearms bill has been law.

I am a very lawabiding person but I really hate it when proven that govenment departments have been cheating those they are supposed to be working for.

Freedom of information act. We pay we have a need to know what we are paying for.

The US will have published the relevant document.

I'll search the interweb.

[Mr Merde]

Here it is

NSN 1005-01-453-6655 - ArmyProperty.com:
(Subcomponent NSN 1005014536655)

Subcomponent Nomenclature: VERTICAL PISTOL GRIP

[jono035]

moa at 1000 yards is a ten inch circle as moa = minute of angle. Therefore the greater the distance the larger the angle, cheers Pythagoras!

Mil and MOA Range Formulas for Different Combinations of Reticles, Units of Height, and Distance to Target.

Nicely explained, couldn't have done it better myself.

As far as I'm aware, a lot of the technique behind making cold-bore shots is being familiar with the rifle and knowing how the POI changes as the barrel heats.

[jono035]

Oh, I thought it was just an inch as standard, but I have only heard this off of 100 meter shots so you can see how I got the wrong idea... Anyway, I can recall reading that there was a rifle tested (not target, .308 nato police issue or something) that was either getting sub moa or around one inch (once again, I thought MOA was an inch so I'm not sure). Considering 10 and a half inches at a little under a kilometer doesn't sound very accurate for miliatary/police sniping, I'm assuming it was under an inch at that range... Does that sound right?

Normally when someone says sub-moa, they're referring to at 100yards (90m) which is a group with an inch or less between the centers of the two most spread bullets. This is not a measure of the absolute accuracy (where the bullets land on the target), just the relative accuracy (how close will the 2nd shot be to the first etc.). Getting the relative accuracy is a task for the rifle and shooter combined, but only the shooter can get the absolute accuracy down to what they want.

As sAsLEX (Alex?) pointed out, human torso is more than 10 inches wide and one of those long range sniper cartridges (or .50BMG) will keep so much energy that if you hit someone in the torso at range, they're stuffed, no questions asked...

Edit: The Cheyenne Tactical "Intervention" weapon system is what he was talking about, listed there as 15" at 2000 yards, or .75moa

[jono035]

"Today I have been told on good authority that the Police department have just classified a bolt action rifle as a semi-automatic. I have not seen the papers yet but when I do I will confirm; and ask if I can post copies up here. I hope that makes the apathetic "this doesn't really affect us" bunch sit up and take notice. Start preparing your Ruger M77 semi-automatic bolt-action military style hunting rifle for an E endorsement… here it comes!"

That is off Richard's website.

What. The. Fuck.

I dearly hope this is a misunderstanding...

[wbks]

No way, dude. That would just be RIDICULOUS... I mean, reclassiflying something based on an interpretation is fukd. But flat out reclassifying a type of firearm that has been around for over a hundred years and in that time known world wide as "Bolt Action" is beyond stupidity... Surely?

[sAsLEX]

"Today I have been told on good authority that the Police department have just classified a bolt action rifle as a semi-automatic. I have not seen the papers yet but when I do I will confirm; and ask if I can post copies up here. I hope that makes the apathetic "this doesn't really affect us" bunch sit up and take notice. Start preparing your Ruger M77 semi-automatic bolt-action military style hunting rifle for an E endorsement… here it comes!"

That is off Richard's website.

What. The. Fuck.

I dearly hope this is a misunderstanding...

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/ blog not blod

[jono035]

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/ blog not blod

Fixed, sigh. The one time I don't check a URL I type in manually...

[Delerium]

Oh you beauty. It lkooks like the police have been selling the shooters of NZ a bill of goods.

They have been making upo their own laws for as long as the last firearms bill has been law.

I am a very lawabiding person but I really hate it when proven that govenment departments have been cheating those they are supposed to be working for.

Freedom of information act. We pay we have a need to know what we are paying for.

The US will have published the relevant document.

I'll search the interweb.

Everything in NZDF has an NSN. Literally everything.

[Mr Merde]

"Today I have been told on good authority that the Police department have just classified a bolt action rifle as a semi-automatic. I have not seen the papers yet but when I do I will confirm; and ask if I can post copies up here. I hope that makes the apathetic "this doesn't really affect us" bunch sit up and take notice. Start preparing your Ruger M77 semi-automatic bolt-action military style hunting rifle for an E endorsement… here it comes!"

That is off Richard's website.

What. The. Fuck.

I dearly hope this is a misunderstanding...

The thin edge of the wedge.
The plan is to disarm us or make it extremely hard for us to hold firearms whilst arming themselves to the teeth.

I've noticed on TM that a lot more things now require you to input your licence number.

There was an antique shotgun crimping machine and you needed to do so for that.

Guess who are harvesting all the data from TM, not the Sally Army I bet.

Semi auto shotguns will be next, then lever action rifle with over 7 rounds in the magazine, bolt actions with muzzle brakes, suppressors, laser sights

Go on guess whats next you wont be far wrong.

Disarm the people and they are like sheep to they slaughter. Easy prey for the next errosion of civil rights.

Whats next. No warrants to enter your home. Sorry you all have firearm certificates, you surrendered that right. If you were a criminal they would have to get a warrant if they thought you had a firearm, as you already have a licecence any police officer has the right to enter your home at any time to "inspect" them.

George Orwell was only 20 years early in his calculations.

[jono035]

The thin edge of the wedge.
The plan is to disarm us or make it extremely hard for us to hold firearms whilst arming themselves to the teeth.

I've noticed on TM that a lot more things now require you to input your licence number.

There was an antique shotgun crimping machine and you needed to do so for that.

Guess who are harvesting all the data from TM, not the Sally Army I bet.

Semi auto shotguns will be next, then lever action rifle with over 7 rounds in the magazine, bolt actions with muzzle brakes, suppressors, laser sights

Go on guess whats next you wont be far wrong.

Disarm the people and they are like sheep to they slaughter. Easy prey for the next errosion of civil rights.

Whats next. No warrants to enter your home. Sorry you all have firearm certificates, you surrendered that right. If you were a criminal they would have to get a warrant if they thought you had a firearm, as you already have a licecence any police officer has the right to enter your home at any time to "inspect" them.

George Orwell was only 20 years early in his calculations.

Yep, and of course the elegant part of this situation is the same as for the internet censorship laws in the states. All they have to do is keep saying 'we're doing this for public safety! we're doing this to stop you getting shot by all the criminals!' and Joe Public will cheer them on the entire time. Hell, most people probably wouldn't realise, once it's all done and dusted, that this was even a stage in the plan. It'll just be time to sit around and reminisce about the good old days...