The firearm thread

[jono035]

Awesome super slow mo of bullets in flight and impacting steel/ballistic gel.

Impressive! I liked watching the cracks propagate through the glass. The outside surface of the rifle bullets splitting along the rifling and peeling off was nice too...

[sAsLEX]

Impressive! I liked watching the cracks propagate through the glass. The outside surface of the rifle bullets splitting along the rifling and peeling off was nice too...

I was impressed with how little the major projectile deviated when hit from the side.

Shows how effective spinning is in combating wind etc

[jono035]

I was impressed with how little the major projectile deviated when hit from the side.

Shows how effective spinning is in combating wind etc

Yeah, looked like they were hitting it by firing shot at it, it was taking some pretty decent sized dents, too!

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, looked like they were hitting it by firing shot at it, it was taking some pretty decent sized dents, too!

Which indicates a pretty decent transfer of energy, yet it still lies on strong!

[jono035]

Which indicates a pretty decent transfer of energy, yet it still lies on strong!

The bullets hitting the edge and shearing in half was pretty good too...

[Swoop]

14 October, 2009. Afghan gun merchants can't get enough German pistols for their customers. The most popular model is the Walther-P1, a compact 9mm weapon once widely used by German officers and police (a Walther was the favorite of fictional superspy James Bond). Fortunately for the Afghans, Germany donated 10,000 used Walther-P1s to the Afghan police three years ago. Since then, many of these have been "lost" or "stolen" by the cops, and ended up in local gun shops.

NATO is learning that giving Afghan police and troops high quality weapons backfires. That's because there is, and always has been, an active marker for weapons in Afghanistan. Although most Afghan men cannot afford it, most would like to own a weapon. And those who can afford it, want the best weapons available. This has led to many Western rifles and pistols, donated to the Afghan security forces, disappearing into the local arms trade.

One solution for this is to just equip the Afghans with older Russian weapons (AK-47s and Makarov pistols). There are a lot of second hand Makarov pistols coming on to the market, as the Russian police upgrade to more modern models. The 9mm Makarov was introduced in 1951, to replace the 1930s era TT-33 pistol. This beast weighed 854 grams (30 ounces) and fired a puny 7.62mm bullet from an 8 round magazine. The (then) new Makarov weighed 730 grams (26 ounces) and fired a 9mm bullet from an 8 round magazine.

The Walther-P1 is basically the German Army World War II P38, which was adopted by the post-World War II German army, and some local police departments there. It's an 800 gram (28 ounce) weapon firing 9mm bullets from an 8 round magazine.

There are actually a lot of used police pistols available in the West, as newer and more effective models have been introduced in the last decade or so. But German weapons have always been much admired in Afghanistan, and the Walther-P1 is considered the gold standard when it comes to side arms.

[Wolf]

But German weapons have always been much admired in Afghanistan, and the Walther-P1 is considered the gold standard when it comes to side arms.

The P-38/P1 was my favourite dream firearm for years, then Walther produced the P99. I would still love to own a P-38, but I'd want a P99 first.

The Afghans think the old P-1's a gold standard? They'd think the P99, with its 15 rounds of 9mm or 12 rounds of .40, was diamond-encrusted Platinum!

Bond's pistol was originally the Walther PPK, a far more compact pistol firing eight 7.65mm rounds, then they equipped the Pierce Brosnan edition of Bond with the P99.

[jono035]

The P-38/P1 was my favourite dream firearm for years, then Walther produced the P99. I would still love to own a P-38, but I'd want a P99 first.

The Afghans think the old P-1's a gold standard? They'd think the P99, with its 15 rounds of 9mm or 12 rounds of .40, was diamond-encrusted Platinum!

Bond's pistol was originally the Walther PPK, a far more compact pistol firing eight 7.65mm rounds, then they equipped the Pierce Brosnan edition of Bond with the P99.

The PPK also had a .38 variant.

I've had a play with someones P99 and while it would be a great combat weapon (light, double stack mag, relatively meaty trigger pull) it isn't very nice to fire. The lack of weight at the top end makes it really torquey when firing the 9mm, which has a very short sharp recoil anyway. The trigger pull was also quite long and ratchety, similar to a Glock. It definitely isn't a pistol that I would choose to own for fun.

The PPK has style, the P99 is yet another polymer frame autoloader. Precision and elegance vs a blunt instrument. Maybe they were worried Brosnan wasn't manly enough?

[Wolf]

The PPK also had a .38 variant.

I've had a play with someones P99 and while it would be a great combat weapon (light, double stack mag, relatively meaty trigger pull) it isn't very nice to fire. The lack of weight at the top end makes it really torquey when firing the 9mm, which has a very short sharp recoil anyway. The trigger pull was also quite long and ratchety, similar to a Glock. It definitely isn't a pistol that I would choose to own for fun.

The PPK has style, the P99 is yet another polymer frame autoloader. Precision and elegance vs a blunt instrument. Maybe they were worried Brosnan wasn't manly enough?

Never had a chance to fire either - I have the CP99 airpistol made by Umarex/Walther but that's technically a double-action 8-shot revolver so the trigger is likely to be totally different to the real 9mm (you can manually cock it with the slide and it has a nice crisp single-action but still no comparison with the real McCoy.)

Isn't Bond supposed to be a "blunt instrument"? At least, according to M in the latest incarnation...

Though I notice Daniel Craig fires a PPK in the title sequence of QoS.

I've held a Glock and I don't like its ergonomics - the angle of the grip does not suit me. The P99 does give a nice natural point for me (as do the Colt 1911, Browning Hi-Power, Ruger KP models and a number of others) so as far as JAFPFAs (Just Another Fucking Polymer Frame Autoloader) go, I'd take the P99 over the Glock any day.

[jono035]

Never had a chance to fire either - I have the CP99 airpistol made by Umarex/Walther but that's technically a double-action 8-shot revolver so the trigger is likely to be totally different to the real 9mm (you can manually cock it with the slide and it has a nice crisp single-action but still no comparison with the real McCoy.)

Isn't Bond supposed to be a "blunt instrument"? At least, according to M in the latest incarnation...

Though I notice Daniel Craig fires a PPK in the title sequence of QoS.

I've held a Glock and I don't like its ergonomics - the angle of the grip does not suit me. The P99 does give a nice natural point for me (as do the Colt 1911, Browning Hi-Power, Ruger KP models and a number of others) so as far as JAFPFAs (Just Another Fucking Polymer Frame Autoloader) go, I'd take the P99 over the Glock any day.

Yes, but Casino Royale is the beginning of the story, before Bond acquired the style and elegance that he was later (?!) reknowned for? Talking entirely out of my rear end there of course.

Interesting comment about the grip angle, that isn't something I've noticed in anything other than the ruger target .22 pistols.

And yeah, a Walther P99 or S&W SW9 would probably be up there for me.

[Indiana_Jones]

Get your palm ready Jono....

PPK? sif!

PP7 is where it's at!

-Indy

[The Pastor]

the pp7 is the fictional one for james bond or was it actually made?

[Wolf]

Never heard of a PP7. Heckler & Koch made the P7, which looks nothing like the pic in the screen capture.

[jono035]

It's a PPK renamed to PP7 due to licensing BS I'd imagine. Really common thing to do in games.

[Wolf]

Interesting comment about the grip angle, that isn't something I've noticed in anything other than the ruger target .22 pistols.

Have used neither but there does seem to be a marked difference in grip angle between the Ruger Mk I (and upgrades) and the 22/45. The 22/45 has (according to Ruger's own literature) a "1911-style" grip, the Mk I, II and III have a more angled grip. I can imagine the 22/45 would be more my cup of tea as the barrel of the Mk I would be angled upwards if I held my hand in a "what feels comfortable for me" position - just like the Glock. I'd have to consciously angle my wrist down to line up the sights.

I once read a review on the P99 where the reviewer compared it with the Glock and said that the Walther was a more natural point for people used to the 1911 and I agree with it wholeheartedly - not that I'm used to the 1911, but I have held one and find it also points as "naturally" (for me, YMMV) as the P99 and my CP99.

I can bring the CP99 up into firing position quickly and smoothly with my eyes shut, open them and find myself looking down the sights. Tried that with a Glock and I'm looking at the top of the slide, angled upwards.