The firearm thread

[sAsLEX]

Depends on how you get the 'little tickle' and how long for. Hand to hand 240v is a hell of a lot more than a tickle!

Yeah the old electricians trick of a hand for your job and a hand for your pocket is a great way to avoid throwing the current across your chest.


reminds me of how the old "L"s would check fuses by licking their fingers and running them down the panel!

[Mr Merde]

Depends on how you get the 'little tickle' and how long for. Hand to hand 240v is a hell of a lot more than a tickle!

Also, people tend to get a bit more picky when it comes to commercial appliances and exposure to the general public!

Edit: On a related note, the $20 1500W electric hob that I got off trade me melts lead like a champ right up to the point where the internal insulation melts and the thing lets out a big puff of smoke and trips an RCD... Good times... Bought myself an 18 kg ingot of lead to get started with, no idea what the composition of it is though, may have to try get hold of a few kgs of plumbers solder or something to alloy it with... I also need a better melting pot, the spare steel cake tin that I was mucking around with won't quite cut it for 2 litres of molten lead...

Have got a spare stainless serving spoon (one of those huge ones, probably from a barbeque tools set) to use as a ladle and a $5 muffin tray for ingot molds... should be interesting...

Oh you are getting the bug.

Cast iron pot and a gas cooker, lead melts somewhere around 750 degrees. Get a lead thermometer. LYMAN LADLE.

I load lead\tim mix at a 20:1 ratio sometimes 30:1. BP likes soft lead. Have used pure lead but it doesnt cast as crisp as it does with a little tin in it.

Wheel weights are good to add as is linotype. If you are going over 1700fps then look at gas checks. Get a good lube. I made my own for years out of beeswax, vegetable fat and olive oil., pan lube the rounds till you can afford a lubrisor.

Big trick is to get your mould and lead hot but not too hot. Keeping the mould hot is important.

I could go on forever.

Chris

[Brett]

And why is that?

My rifle was $ 25 postage with NZ Couriers, no way near 150 thats for sure


and according to some its a dangerous MSSA!

Not sure, the seller quoted me that figure. Based on your comment, I will get a price myself for pick up from his place.

I think he may have included insurance in those figures. Plus I think he was sending bolt, magazine and silencer separately. Will make a few calls myself tomorrow.

[Swoop]

I think he may have included insurance in those figures. Plus I think he was sending bolt, magazine and silencer separately.

Some courier companies will not handle firearms...
Best if the bolt & suppressor are boxed together, then posted to you.
The remaining item is not fireable in the event that the theiving bloody couriers take a liking to the parcel (happens more than you think).
For $150 you are being ripped off.

[jono035]

Oh you are getting the bug.

Cast iron pot and a gas cooker, lead melts somewhere around 750 degrees. Get a lead thermometer. LYMAN LADLE.

I load lead\tim mix at a 20:1 ratio sometimes 30:1. BP likes soft lead. Have used pure lead but it doesnt cast as crisp as it does with a little tin in it.

Wheel weights are good to add as is linotype. If you are going over 1700fps then look at gas checks. Get a good lube. I made my own for years out of beeswax, vegetable fat and olive oil., pan lube the rounds till you can afford a lubrisor.

Big trick is to get your mould and lead hot but not too hot. Keeping the mould hot is important.

I could go on forever.

Chris

Hmmmm, using wheel weights would be good, probably easier than getting hold of plumbers solder by the kg although pure tin would be useful to have around too. I wonder if any of the scrappies deal in that?

Going to take a crack at that lee tumble lube stuff... Apparently it works well but leaves the bullets a little bit sticky... I can live with that. Some guys talk about tumbling their rounds afterwards to get rid of it but the possibility of pulverizing the powder into something closely resembling grenade filler doesn't seem smart to me...

The 1500W electric hob melted a couple of tablespoon sized blocks of lead in about 2-3 minutes so with better insulated wire to avoid the hob going fizz again then it should do the job admirably.

Was asked today what I wanted for christmas by my girlfriend... I'm wondering if I can get away with asking for a 6 gang .44 mold, bottom pour lead pot or lubrisizer...

I grabbed one of those lee ladles because they had them sitting there for $10 in reloaders supplies and it seems like a bottom pour pot would make the entire process a lot easier in terms of controlling oxidation and casting speed...

[Mr Merde]

NSANZ.org.nz Posts: 123 Franklin Gender:

Re: The best approach is to do nothing? Reply #9 - Today at 10:17pm Jono wrote on Yesterday at 8:04am: ..............Anyway, can anyone think of a good way to get across to people like this that doing nothing is never the answer? I'm sure you can provide some good examples from the UK, Chris. Not just in the sport of firearms and shooting. People like to keep a low profile on average. We dont like to rock the boat so we keep quiet about things we are passionate about when we should be shouting it from the rooftops. It what makes us individuals, unique. Our dreams, hopes, aspirations and passtimes. In todays world we have been trained to believe that we should respect everyones rights and beliefs. Therefore we are hesitant to push for our own for fear of being accused on incorrectness. This is very predominant in our sport. We have had years of people trying to ban our sport. They claim we are annachronisms of a bygone age, we are potential killers, we are all psychopaths just waiting for the right moment to errupt. For our shame we have come to believe these in some way. We have found it easier to keep a low profile in an attempt to not attract deviseive comment. Pistol shooting was one of the original sports of the first modern Olympics. Shooting has been around for almost 1000 years not only for warefare but for hunting and for sport. Shooting has been such a focal part of our existance that it has spilt over to our very language. Who has never heard the expressions "flash in a pan" and "lock, stock and barrel". We need to become more vocal about our sport. Dont hide the fact that you find enjou=yment in putting a hole in a piuece of paper at distance, or that you love to be out in the forest hunting for wild game, or that you love to smash clay pigeons with a shotgun. I never hide thea fact that I am a shooter. 2 weeks ago I was invited to give a talk to agroup of Sea Scouts. I took along a selection of my rifles and shotguns. These boys were aged between 12 and 16 years old. I was totrally unprepared and winged my talk. 1 hour later i was still fielding questions from 30 young men whilst their parents watched on. The leader of the group told me later that he had never seen them so quiet or attentive before and invited me to joine with the group at a shooting range whenever i cared to. These boys were all presented with a copy of the Firearms code that I had downloaded and printed. I hope in my way I influenced another generation of shooters. As to the UK. After hungerford a few new groups were started. I joined one called "Shooters Rights Association", we were small but vocal when we started. We tried to join with other shooting bodies to present a combined front to the political powers. It never worked. Then came Dunblane. There was such an outrage over this crime (and rightly so) bu twe as shooters bore the brunt of it. We were divided, we fought for our individual sports. The shotgunners didnt help the rifle men and the Olumpic stle shooters believed they were safe as they nonly used .22's so they didnt support the practical pistol shooter. What happened? Classic tactics, divide and rule. The government made noises to alll of the groups individually and led them to beliueve they were safe from any ban. Then they enacted draconian legislature that had been dismissed 10 years earlier as unworkable, and decimated the sporet of piustol shooting. Their reasoning was that by getting rid of legallyu held firearms there would be no more arnmed crime. They forgot about criminals not registering their firearms. 600,000 people lost their sport. Companies went under, the buyback scheme cost the British government 1 1/2 billion pounds. People lost their livelyhood. The Olympic sport and British team now had to train in France and Sw2itzerland. Was the governments aim achieved? No way. Armed crime in the Uk is at an all time high. Greater than that of the US per 100,000 head of population. A total failure but it got the Labour party and Tony Blair elected. Why did all this happen? Because people were too scared of announcing to the world that they were shooters and enjoyed or partook of some shooting sport. So to answer your question, yes there are plenty of examples in the UK but I see the beginnings of the same attitudes here in NZ. Stand up, be counted and do not be afraid to proclaim to the world that you are a shooter. There is no shame in that fact. Support a united group that will support you and your ideals. Try and make other groups see thatr we need to unite or we will go the way of the dinosaurs. I AM A SHOOTER and will be till the DAY THAT I DIE

Jono check the forum, I wrote an answer you your question

Chris

[Wolf]

Wow, Jono, great stuff.

Chris, thanks for cross-posting it.

[Flip]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

[Mr Merde]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

It disnt supprise me tat the accuracy detriorated.
Black powder generates a lot of fouling.

The residue would have filled the grooves in the rifling and raised the pressure of the round.

As the rifling was blocked the bulletr wouldnt engage it properly and that all important spin would have been not applied properly.

Dont forget the 44-40 was designed as a BP round. It was designed for soft lead and a black powder lube.

The purpose of the lube in BP is to keep the fouling soft so that the next rpound will push th eold fouling out and lea ve fresh soft fouling in the barrel. A good isea is to check the muzzle of the barrel. If it has a fouling ring or feels wet then the lube is doing its job.

They have REDISCOVERED this fact. Something our ancestors knew. In the US they are now producing bullets that carry copious ammounts of lube, especially for black powder shooters.

Modern lube will work for a very short time then the residue in the rifling will harden. You might as well be shooting a smoothbore.

As for the hardness of the bullet. BP rounds work best with softer bullets in conjunction with a good soft lube. The bullet bumps up to enter the grooves, the powder burns and generates proper pressure down the whole barrel. If you use a hard bullet then there is no bumping up and the gases escape around the bullet as it travels down the barrel,

[The Pastor]

anyone got info on the blackpowder military show in december?

[jono035]

Wow, Jono, great stuff.

Chris, thanks for cross-posting it.

I can only take credit for the first line, everything else is Chris' writing.

Chris: Thanks a lot for writing that, we've discussed the process that happened to leave the UK where it is now a few times in person but it is nice to be able to have it written down as a reference.

[jono035]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

Chris has you right on this one. I've seen a bunch of places where people have warned against using the tumble lubes for black powder, it simply isn't soft enough and you can't keep enough on the bullets.

Smokeless is a entirely different kettle of fish given that you're mostly trying to stop abrading of the projectile rather than powder fouling.

[Mr Merde]

I have been reading a lot lately about black powder and reloading.

This is mainly because I have the Springfield 1873 Cadet rifle in 45-70 an want to replicate the loads of the period.

Here a few of my findings that have supprised me and have forced me to rethink my ideas.

In the days prior to the widespread adoption of nitro powder (modern propellant) the BP produced was of a much better quality than we produce today. Our powder today would be considered inferior if it were on the 19th century market.

Primers were hotter than they are now.

The powder in a case, in particular the 45-70, was compressed far more than we do today. Modern thinking is that you compress 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch. Powder in the 45-70 round of the late 19th century was compressed between .3-.4 of an inch ( 10/32 - 15/32 of an inch) this formed the powder into a solid pellet. The hot primer caused the powder to burn faster than we have nowadays.

My particular rifle was designed with a 29 inch barrel that enabled all the powcder to be burnt in the barrel therefore there would have been very little smoke from the business end of the rifle.

Bullets were made of very soft lead. they Obturated to the barrel and created a seal that the gases released wouldnt go around therefore all the energy was used to push the bullet out.

Lube wasz very important as it keptr the fouling soft between rounds. Thre fouling didnt affect the accuracy of the bullet.

From what I have read I can use the compression easily. I need to open up the flash hole to .9mm. I shpould be using magnum primer to get the flame to distribute faster through the powder pellet. I should be getting a mould that throws a bullet with a slightly concave base that will obturate as enviaged by the designers.

All this only goes to show that the more we think we know the more we have to learn.

Just realised I have been suffering from "fat finger syndrome" and there are numerous spelling mistakes in my posts. Sorry about this but I am too lazy to spell check.

Chris

[jono035]

I have been reading a lot lately about black powder and reloading.

This is mainly because I have the Springfield 1873 Cadet rifle in 45-70 an want to replicate the loads of the period.

Here a few of my findings that have supprised me and have forced me to rethink my ideas.

In the days prior to the widespread adoption of nitro powder (modern propellant) the BP produced was of a much better quality than we produce today. Our powder today would be considered inferior if it were on the 19th century market.

Primers were hotter than they are now.

The powder in a case, in particular the 45-70, was compressed far more than we do today. Modern thinking is that you compress 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch. Powder in the 45-70 round of the late 19th century was compressed between .3-.4 of an inch ( 10/32 - 15/32 of an inch) this formed the powder into a solid pellet. The hot primer caused the powder to burn faster than we have nowadays.

My particular rifle was designed with a 29 inch barrel that enabled all the powcder to be burnt in the barrel therefore there would have been very little smoke from the business end of the rifle.

Bullets were made of very soft lead. they Obturated to the barrel and created a seal that the gases released wouldnt go around therefore all the energy was used to push the bullet out.

Lube wasz very important as it keptr the fouling soft between rounds. Thre fouling didnt affect the accuracy of the bullet.

From what I have read I can use the compression easily. I need to open up the flash hole to .9mm. I shpould be using magnum primer to get the flame to distribute faster through the powder pellet. I should be getting a mould that throws a bullet with a slightly concave base that will obturate as enviaged by the designers.

All this only goes to show that the more we think we know the more we have to learn.

Just realised I have been suffering from "fat finger syndrome" and there are numerous spelling mistakes in my posts. Sorry about this but I am too lazy to spell check.

Chris

I've been reading a lot about .44 magnum loads with cast lead bullets. The obturation issues get mentioned quite a lot. The normal advice to solve barrel leading seems to be use harder lead currently, but there are a few places I've found people suggesting the opposite. Softer lead and flat base bullet molds (hollow base would be even better) seems to be good advice for smokeless, too.

Chris: Did you see the posts a week or 2 ago suggesting the 5th as a good night to have this proposed shoot/barbeque idea?

[Mr Merde]

.....
Chris: Did you see the posts a week or 2 ago suggesting the 5th as a good night to have this proposed shoot/barbeque idea?

Missed the post but seems OK to me.