The firearm thread

[jono035]

Have a quick google around. I had a look around a while back randomly and there were quite a few resources out there dedicated to deciphering those marks.

[Mumbles]

Figured if I posted it, I would have to do it!
Off to the range tomorrow first free weekend for about 6 months and I need to get my shoots up!! Reloading tomorrow and then better see what the para looks like.... seems such a long time ago that we went out for a shoot, I've almost forgotten what it looks like!

[Swoop]

Anyone know where I can find out what the 'stamps' on my .303 actually mean ? The NZ and 1901 are obvious but some of the others have me guessing.

Take it along to an IMAS meeting. There are a few there who will chew your ear all evening about .303's...

[1vanvan1]

I recently joined the air force and on my recruit course we were given Styers to shoot. FUn weapons! Speacially when put of fully auto!!

[sAsLEX]

Happy new year my fellow hoplophiles!

Whilst idly wasting my time at work (upgrading backup exec, *yawn*) I stumbled upon this little fella up for sale:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunt...-263056821.htm

Seems like a pretty reasonable price for a shooter like that. I understand these are copies of the Winchester Model 92. Anyone owned one of these? Likes/dislikes?

I have an original 92........

[ManDownUnder]

Took the little man and my good self to the local rifle range yesterday, found a guy with a Tikka T3 in 270, who offered me a shot - right alongside the 270WSM. Couldn't feel a difference to be honest - they both kick enough to make you want to hang on tight before the lead starts to fly.

Met some bloody good people there too.

Ruben (let's call him BoyDownUnder) got loose with the .22 at a few targets. bloody good fun. Little bugger hit a few bullseyes too. I'm getting more and more keen on finding a youth rifle for him - something I can put a cheap scope on. Anyone got ideas?

[jono035]

Sounds like a good day MDU. I've seen a couple of single shot, bolt action Norincos on trademe pretty cheap, a couple with 4x20 scopes already mounted. Don't know how big they would end up for him though.

Dropped the car off to have the SRS controller replaced today (holy s&%t, $1k later...) and walked past a tire shop on the way home, wandered in, got chatting to the guy behind the counter and walked away with a huge bucket of wheel weights (30kg??) for free. Decided a taxi the rest of the way home was in order given that the bus requires a fair bit of walking to get to my place...

[wbks]

Hey experts is it a general theme for semi's to not cycle with subsonics? Me and a mate were thinking of going halves on an m14 to silence but I can't help but think that obviously there'd be no point unless you used subsonics, and then you may get trouble cycling and even with a bolt action it wouldn't drop much less than a goat, anyway?

[jono035]

From the limited reading around I've done there are plenty of people out there who have had good success with suppressing .308s but you definitely pay the price on range and performance... It entirely depends on what your goals are for range and target.

Semi-auto also makes the project a little difficult... The standard way people seem to make subsonic loads for centerfire rifle cartridges is to use small charges of quite fast powder, which means there is no pressure left at the end of the barrel to cycle the action. As I understand it you can modify the gas system so that it works off a lower pressure, but if you're going to all that effort then an M14 might not be the best starting platform? I have also read about rifles with adjustable gas systems being able to be tuned to work with lower pressure ammo. You'd have to take a bit of a look around really.

There is always the approach of going for a cartridge that is normally a bit closer to subsonic as well like a pistol cartridge. The next thing I'm thinking of having a play with is trying to make a suppressed lever action .44 mag.... Would work out brilliantly on goats/pigs and possibly even deer at shorter ranges but I'd be doing it out of interest, not for any purpose, as such.

Edit: Also beware, I don't know how successful the scope mounts for the M14s work out to be, anyone here have any experience with them?

[Drunken Monkey]

There is a video on YouTube of a person demonstrating a silenced M1A (basically the same thing). The action was cycled manually, but the gun was effectively supressed. If I can find it again I will post it.

Here we go, and it is an M14, not an M1A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=socgmULGVOA

[Drunken Monkey]

Edit: Also beware, I don't know how successful the scope mounts for the M14s work out to be, anyone here have any experience with them?

Not on mine, but my customer who advised me to get the Norinco has. Cheap (<$300) scope mounts won't keep the scope true. The flash mil-spec one is fine, but it is over $400.

[wbks]

There is a video on YouTube of a person demonstrating a silenced M1A (basically the same thing). The action was cycled manually, but the gun was effectively supressed. If I can find it again I will post it.

Here we go, and it is an M14, not an M1A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=socgmULGVOA

Being cycled manually you might as well go with a bolt, anyhow? I wonder if that would drop a deer

[jono035]

DM - Interesting, I figured that might be the case, seems like it's the same with all of those guns with the offset scope mounts.

I would prefer a bolt-action to a semi-auto that wouldn't cycle, to be sure. Less parts and lighter.

If you're not dead set on using a specific round then look at doing it with a round that travels slower to begin with. If you assume that the bullet has to be subsonic then all the bullets are going to have roughly the same trajectory but the energy will depend on the weight of bullet you use. A relatively heavy bullet for .30 cal is 180 grains. A heavy bullet for .44 magnum is 300 grains which will have almost twice the energy at the same speed. It will have much better wounding capacity at the target as well given that normal rifle bullets apparently don't expand in subsonic loads.

Starting with a round that fires slower to begin with you're much less likely to run into issues with needing a custom barrel with a faster twist rate to stabilise the projectiles which seems to be a common theme as well. Taking something like the .44 magnum which tops out at 1500fps and running it at 1000fps is going to be much easier to do than taking a .308 which tops out at 3000fps and running it at 1000fps...

[Flip]

I have been stuffing around with subsonic loads in 308 and 44-40 for years.

I have even shot subs in my M14 clone. It did not cycle but did shoot a very good group at 100m it just shot 4" to the left of the point of aim.

One word "Wisper 50".

[wbks]

DM - Interesting, I figured that might be the case, seems like it's the same with all of those guns with the offset scope mounts.

I would prefer a bolt-action to a semi-auto that wouldn't cycle, to be sure. Less parts and lighter.

If you're not dead set on using a specific round then look at doing it with a round that travels slower to begin with. If you assume that the bullet has to be subsonic then all the bullets are going to have roughly the same trajectory but the energy will depend on the weight of bullet you use. A relatively heavy bullet for .30 cal is 180 grains. A heavy bullet for .44 magnum is 300 grains which will have almost twice the energy at the same speed. It will have much better wounding capacity at the target as well given that normal rifle bullets apparently don't expand in subsonic loads.

Starting with a round that fires slower to begin with you're much less likely to run into issues with needing a custom barrel with a faster twist rate to stabilise the projectiles which seems to be a common theme as well. Taking something like the .44 magnum which tops out at 1500fps and running it at 1000fps is going to be much easier to do than taking a .308 which tops out at 3000fps and running it at 1000fps...

OK Thanks for the tip. But are you talking about specific rifles that have trouble getting accuracy with subsonics in .308? I haven't heard anything so far about it from people who shoot from as far as I know, just standard bolt actions with a supressor attached