The firearm thread

[jono035]

You're not wrong about that rifle but then again if it needs to be fixed to shoot it's not thaaat different from some benchrest competitions. It's a curiosity and nothing more really in the same way as the .50 BMG is for most people.

Yeah, the faster barrel twist rate for stablising the .308 is exactly what I was getting at before. Most of them seem to be using 1:8 barrels with the .300 whisper using the same projectiles that you would use for a subsonic .308 which means you would need a 1:8 twist .308 barrel for best performace with subsonics. If you need a custom twist rate barrel then you might as well go for an entirely different round which is where I see the .300 whisper coming in.

As a side note, a .308 with the same twist rate barrel, loaded to the same velocity with the same projectile will have the same ballistics as a .300 whisper, the only difference is in the case size which effects the powder used.

All subsonic rounds are going to perform much the same in terms of trajectory so it's going to be a bit of a rainbow really, with the drop at 100m being 0.5m and at 200m being 2m. This means that apart from target shooting at fixed distances it is going to be pretty difficult to use past 100m. In terms of repeatability (grouping) then I really don't know, there are people claiming 1-2" at 300 yards but at that range you've got a 4.6m drop so you won't be using it for hunting out to that range, for sure.

That's a neat video of the AR-15, I still don't know exactly what has to be done to make them cycle nicely using the subsonics, someone on a forum mentioned something about fitting an adjustable gas block so with a bit of luck it could be quite simple...

[jono035]

I wondered that. New barrel probably around the $500 mark plus the cost of reaming the chamber and fitting another $200

You apparently dont have to do any other work to the receiver or the magazine.

Could do with a nicer looking stock, properly bedded of course.

I don't even know what form you would be buying new barrels in? With the bore cut and rifled for a certain caliber bullet but the chamber un-reamed?

[Mr Merde]

I don't even know what form you would be buying new barrels in? With the bore cut and rifled for a certain caliber bullet but the chamber un-reamed?

Thats how I got the barrel for my Remington Rolling BLock.
I had to have the chamber reamed, the dovetails for the sights cut ,the receiver end threaded and the barrel mounted in the receiver. Cost me $600 for the barrel and $250 for all the work in mounting it to the receiver.

[wbks]

You're not wrong about that rifle but then again if it needs to be fixed to shoot it's not thaaat different from some benchrest competitions. It's a curiosity and nothing more really in the same way as the .50 BMG is for most people.

Yeah, the faster barrel twist rate for stablising the .308 is exactly what I was getting at before. Most of them seem to be using 1:8 barrels with the .300 whisper using the same projectiles that you would use for a subsonic .308 which means you would need a 1:8 twist .308 barrel for best performace with subsonics. If you need a custom twist rate barrel then you might as well go for an entirely different round which is where I see the .300 whisper coming in.

As a side note, a .308 with the same twist rate barrel, loaded to the same velocity with the same projectile will have the same ballistics as a .300 whisper, the only difference is in the case size which effects the powder used.

All subsonic rounds are going to perform much the same in terms of trajectory so it's going to be a bit of a rainbow really, with the drop at 100m being 0.5m and at 200m being 2m. This means that apart from target shooting at fixed distances it is going to be pretty difficult to use past 100m. In terms of repeatability (grouping) then I really don't know, there are people claiming 1-2" at 300 yards but at that range you've got a 4.6m drop so you won't be using it for hunting out to that range, for sure.

That's a neat video of the AR-15, I still don't know exactly what has to be done to make them cycle nicely using the subsonics, someone on a forum mentioned something about fitting an adjustable gas block so with a bit of luck it could be quite simple...

Well I guess the choice depends on how much difference there is in the volume of the actual cartridge, then. If there isn't a huge difference I'm thinking that maybe just using a 1:8 barrel and silencer in .308 would be the best idea. Not exactly "custom" so there wouldn't be much messing around, and subsonics to fit off the shelf. Just comes down to the difference in powder load obviously making the most difference in noise?

[jono035]

Well I guess the choice depends on how much difference there is in the volume of the actual cartridge, then. If there isn't a huge difference I'm thinking that maybe just using a 1:8 barrel and silencer in .308 would be the best idea. Not exactly "custom" so there wouldn't be much messing around, and subsonics to fit off the shelf. Just comes down to the difference in powder load obviously making the most difference in noise?

I figured that a .300 whisper was a better choice.

For the .308 you're assuming you can FIND a .308 barrel with a 1:8 twist (haven't looked into this at all). If you have to go for a custom barrel then you might as well make a .300 whisper because the reloading will be less iffy (no worries with case filler, drilling out flash holes or the secondary explosive effect people seem concerned about). It appears you can make .300 whisper cases easily from .223 remington or .221 fireball, both of which seem common enough. Also you won't be able to use normal .308 rounds in a 1:8 twist chamber, the bullets will be spinning too fast and will disintegrate as soon as they leave the barrel. The action for the .300 whisper will be based on the lighter/shorter .223 remington action, too.

Are factory subsonics easily available for the .308? From my reading it seemed they were pretty rare and most people hand-loaded, anyway.

The smaller case will make more efficient use of the powder and will be safer with smaller powder charges.

Edit: If you had a bolt action with an easily changed barrel then I could see .308 being a good choice because you could swap between normal .308 barrel and suppressed .308 barrel which would seem to be more versatile than swapping between .300 whisper and .223, but even then I'd probably just build them up as 2 separate rifles if I needed them anyway, that way there is less stuffing around constantly re-zeroing your scope...

[Mr Merde]

Well I guess the choice depends on how much difference there is in the volume of the actual cartrage, then. If there isn't a huge difference I'm thinking that maybe just using a 1:8 barrel and silencer in .308 would be the best idea. Not exactly "custom" so there wouldn't be much messing around, and subsonics to fit off the shelf. Just comes down to the difference in powder load obviously making the most difference in noise?

You have to watch underloading a cartridge, Can be as dangerous as overloading. I've seen revolvers with top strap and cylinders blown all because of an underloaded case.

[jono035]

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. I wasn't suggesting that the ballistics were the same as an argument in favor of the .308, more as a curiosity.

The ballistics, bullet and powders used for both will be the same.
Both will require a custom barrel. You won't be able to use this barrel for full strength .308 loads.
Both will be similar volume after being suppressed.

The .300 whisper will be easier to reload but the brass may require you to cut down some cheap .223 brass to make (simple process).
The .308 will be easier to get brass for but may require you to modify the brass (larger flash hole) and/or use case filler when loading the cases which can be a pain. It also may be at risk from the SEE (secondary explosive effect) which could be dangerous.

The .300 whisper will use a .223 remington action which will be lighter due to it being more appropriate for the power of the cartridge. The .223 remington action in a semi-automatic will be more likely to cycle under the subsonic pressures.

I'd definitely be going for the .300 whisper, especially for 'cool' factor.

[jono035]

True-Flite barrels are available as 'Premium Suppressor' type barrels for .30 cal with 1:8 twist...

Premium Suppressor (2 barrel minimum).30 cal x 1-8",.338 cal x 1-9", 15"-17".$336.00
Chamber, crown and fit Premium barrel ( bolt actions only ) .................from $196.00

So a custom barrel seems like it could shake out to less than $550 fitted. That seems pretty damn reasonable, really.

Just firing off an e-mail to them now to see if they will chamber for .300 whisper, it isn't listed on their website.

[wbks]

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. I wasn't suggesting that the ballistics were the same as an argument in favor of the .308, more as a curiosity.

The ballistics, bullet and powders used for both will be the same.
Both will require a custom barrel. You won't be able to use this barrel for full strength .308 loads.
Both will be similar volume after being suppressed.

The .300 whisper will be easier to reload but the brass may require you to cut down some cheap .223 brass to make (simple process).
The .308 will be easier to get brass for but may require you to modify the brass (larger flash hole) and/or use case filler when loading the cases which can be a pain. It also may be at risk from the SEE (secondary explosive effect) which could be dangerous.

The .300 whisper will use a .223 remington action which will be lighter due to it being more appropriate for the power of the cartridge. The .223 remington action in a semi-automatic will be more likely to cycle under the subsonic pressures.

I'd definitely be going for the .300 whisper, especially for 'cool' factor.

Haven't heard of secondary explosion effect, guess I'll be googling it. So you suggest a rem700 223?

[wbks]

True-Flite barrels are available as 'Premium Suppressor' type barrels for .30 cal with 1:8 twist...

Premium Suppressor (2 barrel minimum).30 cal x 1-8",.338 cal x 1-9", 15"-17".$336.00
Chamber, crown and fit Premium barrel ( bolt actions only ) .................from $196.00

So a custom barrel seems like it could shake out to less than $550 fitted. That seems pretty damn reasonable, really.

Just firing off an e-mail to them now to see if they will chamber for .300 whisper, it isn't listed on their website.

So you're curious about doing it yourself now?...
What length barrels are those?

[jono035]

Haven't heard of secondary explosion effect, guess I'll be googling it. So you suggest a rem700 223?

SEE was a new one to me too when I was looking around, it appears to be a problem with the powder not igniting properly, smouldering for a second or 2 then detonating. I don't know how common it is but there are a few photos out there of destroyed rifles so I'd be pretty wary.

I've only ever shot a Remington 700 half a dozen times so I have no experience with them but they do seem to be very popular amongst hunters and target shooters. That said, given that the custom barrel option is much cheaper than expected you could happily use a cheaper action without losing any sleep over it. If you could pick up a stock/action with a dead barrel for $500, custom barrel for $550 and then with mount/rings/scope/suppressor you could probably have it shake out to around $1500 if you were frugal. It's an interesting thought.

Edit: Yeah, I'm very curious about doing it myself now! It's a neat looking little cartridge that seems like it has some pretty good potential... I'd still like to see how suppressing a .44 magnum would go but I think the size of suppressor required along with having to maintain barrel length on a lever action to keep tube-mag capacity might scupper my suppressed lever-action ideas...

[wbks]

SEE was a new one to me too when I was looking around, it appears to be a problem with the powder not igniting properly, smouldering for a second or 2 then detonating. I don't know how common it is but there are a few photos out there of destroyed rifles so I'd be pretty wary.

I've only ever shot a Remington 700 half a dozen times so I have no experience with them but they do seem to be very popular amongst hunters and target shooters. That said, given that the custom barrel option is much cheaper than expected you could happily use a cheaper action without losing any sleep over it. If you could pick up a stock/action with a dead barrel for $500, custom barrel for $550 and then with mount/rings/scope/suppressor you could probably have it shake out to around $1500 if you were frugal. It's an interesting thought.

Edit: Yeah, I'm very curious about doing it myself now! It's a neat looking little cartridge that seems like it has some pretty good potential...

I have no idea with DIY setups, so are there many restrictions on what actions/stocks you would want for a truflite 1:8 that you listed?

[Mr Merde]

True-Flite barrels are available as 'Premium Suppressor' type barrels for .30 cal with 1:8 twist...

Premium Suppressor (2 barrel minimum).30 cal x 1-8",.338 cal x 1-9", 15"-17".$336.00
Chamber, crown and fit Premium barrel ( bolt actions only ) .................from $196.00

So a custom barrel seems like it could shake out to less than $550 fitted. That seems pretty damn reasonable, really.

Just firing off an e-mail to them now to see if they will chamber for .300 whisper, it isn't listed on their website.

Let me know what they say. Suppressed barrels have to be minimum order of 2. May be worth getting my Weatherby\Howa rechambered for 300 Whisper. Definitely would be fun.

[jono035]

Well that price was including fitting so I assume they'll fit it to damn near anything you provide them (possibly with more cost if it turns out to be difficult).

Hell, there is a Norinco .223 bolt action for $500 on TM at the moment, it'd be a weird one but hey, if you're on a budget *shrug*

[Mr Merde]

So you're curious about doing it yourself now?...
What length barrels are those?

Up to 34" according to the site