The firearm thread

[jono035]

That's why I like the idea of the decocking DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99, Ruger P95DC, SIG226 etc, you've got the ability to quickly decock the pistol and the greater trigger resistance to prevent accidental shots.

That and the fact that the Glock just does not point well for me - the angle of the grip is "wrong".

Yep, and, of course, the Beretta 92. The ability to use the safety in hammer up and hammer down modes is nice, too.

[Wolf]

Yep, and, of course, the Beretta 92. The ability to use the safety in hammer up and hammer down modes is nice, too.

I like the Brazilian version - Taurus PT99 - very nice to shoot.

[jono035]

I like the Brazilian version - Taurus PT99 - very nice to shoot.

Yep, which is exactly what I own The target sights on the Taurus are kinda annoying but the frame mounted safety/decocking is far better than the Beretta.

[Wolf]

Yep, which is exactly what I own The target sights on the Taurus are kinda annoying but the frame mounted safety/decocking is far better than the Beretta.

Taurus made a number of improvements on the M92 design. That's gotta burn - come up with a really good design, allow some other firm to manufacture under licence and they turn around and improve your design.

[sAsLEX]

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

Why not carry around a stick.

Most handgun engagements, effective ones, are done at close range, and that extra second counts when someone is running at you or drawing his own weapon.

Carrying a handgun with one in the chamber is safe, as long as it's de-cocked (and I don't mean de-cocked like the story above) A double action pistol in this scenario is a good choice.

Is your 220 like this? Only have experience in the 226 (oh and getting really really drunk overseas....)

[Wolf]

Why not carry around a stick.

Most handgun engagements, effective ones, are done at close range, and that extra second counts when someone is running at you or drawing his own weapon.

Brings us back to the Tueller Drill - draw and land two rounds centre of mass in under two-and-a-half seconds.

2.5 seconds being the time the average guy with a knife can go from "being 7 metres away" to "embedding it in your soft bits".

Not a lot of time for mucking about.

[Mr Merde]

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

If you are in a situation where you need to carry a firearm then you can reasonably expect to have to use such.

When you draw the firearm you dont want to have to rack the slide to chamber the first round. It could mean you die.

When I was obliged to carry my firearms of choice were the following

Colt 1911 .45 ACP. Carrried in an inside the waistband holster. Cocked and locked.

.45 because when i fired that pistol I wanted whoever I shot at to go down fast and hard.

My other carry gun was a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special. 5 shots in the cylinder ( yes a revolver). The empty gun weighed in at 19 ounces. I caried this in a holster that sat in the small of my back. It had a 2 1/2 inch barrel and once again fired a bloody heavy round that was accurate and would put a person down.

I also carried on occasions a very small handgun. A Browning 1900 in .32 APC. This one sat in my jacket pocket. not a hard hitter but accurate to 10 yards. Singlr action with one always in the chamber.

I trained with both guns shooting bowling pin matches. With the Colt I could draw the pistol, knock 5 skittles off a 1 meter wide table in 7 seconds.

The revolver was just as fast.

When your life and the lives of your friends depend on the first shot you want to be fast and accurate and overwhelming.

[Mr Merde]

Another point about comabt shooting.

You train to make it as instinctive as possible.

When your training kicks in and also the adrenilin you really dont even think about what you are doing.

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

A friend of mine was a specialist in close protection. One day he had the call about a threat to his principle. He drew droppped to one knee and fired a double tapp, or so he thought. He was using a Browning 9mm and he emptied the magazine in the gun, loaded and fired another magazine. Thats 30 rounds fired by instinct. His principle was safe.

[jono035]

Another point about comabt shooting.

You train to make it as instinctive as possible.

When your training kicks in and also the adrenilin you really dont even think about what you are doing.

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

A friend of mine was a specialist in close protection. One day he had the call about a threat to his principle. He drew droppped to one knee and fired a double tapp, or so he thought. He was using a Browning 9mm and he emptied the magazine in the gun, loaded and fired another magazine. Thats 30 rounds fired by instinct. His principle was safe.

One of the comments I remember from a friend of mine who studied forensics was that you generally can't rely on personal accounts from situations like that because of that exact scenario. If the guy had been immediately questioned, he could have ended up swearing black and blue that he'd only fired a couple of rounds when he'd actually emptied a mag.

Same deal as the story I remember you telling about the guy who counted his rounds, loaded a new mag and then at the end of it had had the safety on the entire time without noticing.

[Mr Merde]

...

Same deal as the story I remember you telling about the guy who counted his rounds, loaded a new mag and then at the end of it had had the safety on the entire time without noticing.

I'd forgotten about hat one.

Tim S. Emigrated from South Wales to South Africa. Joined the SA army and had a few trips into Mozambique. That was the first time he had been in a firefight. Not an uncommon scenario. Training kicks in and you are a slave to it.

Always have a laugh at the old time westerns when the goodie is forced into a showdown. the goodie always outdraws one of the baddies and holds his fire thereby showing how fast he is but doesnt shoot anyone.

In real life the action is so fast that he wouldnt be able to stop himself from firing. If the choice is shooting or dying I know what everyone will do.

There are no vegeterians when you are starving.

Chris

[Wolf]

Especially given that the baddie in that scenario may well have been slower to the draw but he's most definitely going to be pulling the trigger - he's not going to be thinking, "hey, he beat me to the draw", he's merely going to be aware that he's still alive and in a fight for his life.

[Finn]

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

Those fuckin parking wardens deserve everything they get. Fuckers

[Finn]

Is your 220 like this? Only have experience in the 226 (oh and getting really really drunk overseas....)

Yip, decocker, da, no safety. Only 7 rounds though so make them count which .45's usually do

[scumdog]

That's why I like the idea of the decocking DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99, Ruger P95DC, SIG226 etc, you've got the ability to quickly decock the pistol and the greater trigger resistance to prevent accidental shots.

That and the fact that the Glock just does not point well for me - the angle of the grip is "wrong".

I love the Glock - NO safety to have a stuff-up with and 17 rounds.

I always carry it 'hot' - as mentioned half seconds can count when it comes to the crunch

For quick and hurriedly aimed shots the grip angle etc does not seem to matter.

[Wolf]

I'd take Finn's SIG 220 over the Glock - its sights would be aligned quicker for me than the Glock's would as it has the same point as the 1911, P99 etc.

A P99 would be my preference if I were in a situation where carrying a firearm to protect my life were required. A couple of rounds fewer than the Glock but no safety to worry about and a natural point for me, can be carried hot but decocked and ready to fire double-action (analogous to what Jeff Cooper called "Condition Two"). Internal striker is locked until the trigger is pulled far enough back to fire it.

I use P99RAM pistols for paintball and I love 'em. I scarcely notice the harder pull for the first, DA, shot and the subsequent shots are all SA.

SD: if it's not an Official Secret or anything, what type of ammo do you lads use in your Glocks?