The firearm thread

[Mr Merde]

Wolf,

Glad you like the feel of the 1911. Always loved how they just fit my hand. Fancied getting a Para ordnance for a while now. Just cant justify the expense. 15 rounds of .45 negates the advantage of the super nines in my humble opinion.

Dont know about SD's ammo choice but military are covered by the geneva Convention and can only use ball ammo. Police arent covered by this convention so they can pretty much use any ammo they choose. if it was me I would opt for a soft point of some sort.

When I shot the skittle matches i used a very funny round. The bullet tip was very much shaped like a keyhole saw. As it spun and connected witrh the pin it dug in. As the aim was to knock the pin off the table any glancing hits were wasted. This bullet didint glance.

Tried the 10mm and other wonder rounds in my time but always came back to the .45. The US Army came up against this problem back in 1905 in the phillipine War. They had changed their standard sidearm to a .38 and found the the Moro's wouldnt go down as they were hyped on dope. They went back to the .45 and a few years later settled on the .45. They would still be there but for the cost of ammo.

We are still re learning about the ammo of the old days. Recently I watched a video of a man in the US firing the 32-20 in a lever rifle. This round is considered punny by todays standard and Wind (his name) is hitting metal plates at 800 and 1000 yards. Something modern pundits say is impossible with any regularity.

Look it up on youtube. 32-40 longe range shooting. Wind is one hell of a nice guy and has been corresponding with me regularly.

Chris

[Wolf]

Expanding bullets were banned by the Hague Convention (1899) - that chunk of legislation that purports to be in the interests of being humane. The one that bans expanding projectiles and stipulates the use of rounds that are more likely to wound than kill, just to inconvenience the enemy troops.

Apparently a man writhing in agony on a muddy battlefield with a hole right through him (or probably more than one, depending on how many shots it took to stop his attack) is "humane" enough for the Hague Convention and being killed outright by an expanding projectile is "inhumane".

According to a Czar and a bunch of politicians who would never risk being the one writhing on the battlefield.

Frankly, I'm glad that hunters, police, security personnel and private citizens are not covered by that barbaric legislation.

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

[scumdog]

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

We use 'Hydroshoks'

Less likely to go through the target - most likely to expend all their energy on it.

[terbang]

Expanding bullets were banned by the Hague Convention (1899) - that chunk of legislation that purports to be in the interests of being humane. The one that bans expanding projectiles and stipulates the use of rounds that are more likely to wound than kill, just to inconvenience the enemy troops.

Apparently a man writhing in agony on a muddy battlefield with a hole right through him (or probably more than one, depending on how many shots it took to stop his attack) is "humane" enough for the Hague Convention and being killed outright by an expanding projectile is "inhumane".

According to a Czar and a bunch of politicians who would never risk being the one writhing on the battlefield.

Frankly, I'm glad that hunters, police, security personnel and private citizens are not covered by that barbaric legislation.

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource. Yes barbaric indeed.

[Wolf]

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource. Yes barbaric indeed.

My very point - the Hague Convention mandates the use of inhumane projectiles to inconvenience the enemy by causing them to expend the resources to remove the wounded soldiers from the field.

It's a bit silly as the enemy also has to use the same barbaric projectiles which has the same effect on your resources.

IOW, being inhumane and not even getting the advantage that it offers - "needless suffering" springs to mind.

Compare that with certain legislations that actually outlaw using FMJ ammunition for hunting as it is needlessly inhumane when used against animals.

So, wild animals are entitled to as swift and humane a death as is possible but the Hague Convention denies the same to human soldiers.

SD: Hydra-Shok bullets are apparently very good by many counts. They're a modified JHP with a centre post to affect their expansion.

[jono035]

My understanding was that a man wounded by a fragmenting (which all expanding bullets have a tendency to do) round was more likely to die later from secondary complications such as infection whereas the non-expanding rounds were very much more likely to kill or wound with high chance of survivability with less area in between.

Would be interesting to see any of the data used to make the decision, for sure.

Edit: Comparing hunting of animals to hunting of people is a little odd. It's much better to have a wounded animal die quickly rather than slowly if it gets away from the hunter with the expectation that it is likely to die either way. With a human and medical treatment, the lines are a lot more blurred.

[Wolf]

Edit: Comparing hunting of animals to hunting of people is a little odd. It's much better to have a wounded animal die quickly rather than slowly if it gets away from the hunter with the expectation that it is likely to die either way. With a human and medical treatment, the lines are a lot more blurred.

Here was me thinking that the object of war was to kill the enemy. At least that was generally the idea back when we civilised peoples cut our enemies' heads off and put them on our fences (and the savages threw people to lions to amuse themselves...)

[Swoop]

When I shot the skittle matches i used a very funny round. The bullet tip was very much shaped like a keyhole saw.

They went back to the .45 and a few years later settled on the .45. They would still be there but for the cost of ammo.

Going on the rough timespan alluded to...
Were they "Black Talon" rounds?

.45 is still common. The regular troops have 9mm but SF are back on ACP.

Recently I spoke to a chap who had need of that calibre. He said the recipient travelled rearwards by 2 feet upon addition of that injection.
A most satisfactory outcome was achieved.

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource.

Many years ago I was told a story that postulated that the current 5.56NATO round was invented because of the "Soviet threat" of invasion via Alaska.
The current round was the 7.62mm. A much smaller round, when used in the arctic, would require a victim to be "de-clothed" to examine/treat the wound. The exposure to freezing conditions would do the major part of the damage.
True or not...?

[jono035]

Here was me thinking that the object of war was to kill the enemy. At least that was generally the idea back when we civilised peoples cut our enemies' heads off and put them on our fences (and the savages threw people to lions to amuse themselves...)

Sure, that's the point, but the parties involved coming together and making a decision to agree to certain codes of conduct of which the point was, I'd always thought, to be more humane to the people actually doing the fighting (i.e. no nerve gas or other weapons likely to cause blanket long term adverse affects) was an imminently civilized thing to do and showed uncommon empathy by those deciding to go to war for those who would actually be on the front lines.

Then again, it doesn't make black and white sense therefore it can't possibly be right.

[Mr Merde]

Swoop had to look up that bullet on the interweb.

Yes that is what they looked like

friend of mine in North Wales swaged specials for us The tip was very much like a keyhole saw.

Hard lead but very similar.

They were brilliant. hit the side of a skittle and it went flying. Hit it with a 9mm and it fell over.


Chris

[Swoop]

Yes that is what they looked like

friend of mine in North Wales swaged specials for us The tip was very much like a keyhole saw.

Hard lead but very similar.

They were brilliant. hit the side of a skittle and it went flying. Hit it with a 9mm and it fell over.

They were removed from the market due to "racist" overtones...

Exceptionally good on pins though & I believe they were re-released under the name "pingrabber".

[sAsLEX]

Had an interesting chat with a man up North who twice mentioned that he would be back with his shotgun.....I take it that is not approved of Scum?

We had been directed to a patch of land to ride on and this bloke approached me when I was on the beach some time later and started abusing me, I was polite the whole time, but he still threatened me a number of times.

Silly me forgot to get his number plate as I was trying to fix a misbehaving bike!

[Indiana_Jones]

Had an interesting chat with a man up North who twice mentioned that he would be back with his shotgun.....I take it that is not approved of Scum?

We had been directed to a patch of land to ride on and this bloke approached me when I was on the beach some time later and started abusing me, I was polite the whole time, but he still threatened me a number of times.

Silly me forgot to get his number plate as I was trying to fix a misbehaving bike!

Well seeing you're a biker, which means you're worth $250, so na not worth the investigation cost aye!

-Indy

[munster]

Anyone need spotlight batteries?

I've got a few spare 12 volt 7 amp hour batteries, ex UPS, get changed every 2 years under contract, no problems. Free, pick up in Pukekohe or can deliver locally within reason.

Send me a message.

cheers

[BornAgainBiker]

wrong post sorry