The firearm thread

**jono035** · 31st May 2012, 21:27

Originally Posted by Indiana_Jones

Nice looking piece of equipment there jono

-Indy

Cheers! Should bring one of the MNs out to the range, show up RM's aim...

**Swoop** · 1st June 2012, 09:04

31May, 2012: Just before Memorial Day (May 28) and without any warning, the U.S. Army ordered its troops to only use the army designed aluminium rifle magazines. This came as a surprise to combat troops, who for years have preferred polymer magazines designed and manufactured outside the army supply system. So popular have these polymer magazines been that the army allows them to be bought through the army supply system, using government funds, if a unit commanders wants them. Most infantry commanders, and their troops, prefer the polymer magazines. This includes SOCOM (Special Operations Command) troops, including the Ranger Regiment.
One of the major polymer magazine producers, the American firm Magpul, also produces larger magazines as well. Two years ago, for example, they came out with a 40 round magazine for M-16 compatible 5.56mm assault rifles. The standard army issue magazine holds 30 rounds. The US$23 polymer magazine has a larger transparent window strip to show how many rounds you have left.

After years of being shown up by superior M-16 magazines from commercial firms, the U.S. Army began issuing an improved magazine of their own two years ago. By the end of 2010, over half a million of the new magazines had been issued, mostly to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and those headed there. The older army issue magazines were turned and discarded, and replaced by the new model. The new magazine is mainly designed to prevent jams when the round comes up from the magazine and into the firing chamber. This is accomplished with a new follower (a tab at the top of the magazine) design, as well as a new, corrosion resistant, spring. The army was apparently upset that their new and improved design was ignored by most troops, who preferred the civilian (usually Magpul) polymer magazines. The army tried to buy the Magpul patents, but Magpul wasn't selling. The army won't explain itself and the troops accuse the army procurement bureaucrats of playing games with the lives of soldiers in combat.

The new army magazine design was still inferior to most commercial designs, which are built mainly to keep the crud out. A big problem with the M-16 type rifle is that the fine sand and dust found in Iraq and Afghanistan can slip past the magazine and into the magazine and lead to a malfunction. Commercial firms have come out with several generations of magazines that try to seal the magazine well to keep the talcum powder like dust out of the rifle. For example, there is the Advanced Reliability Combat magazine, that includes a soft gasket that creates a dust proof seal when the magazine is inserted in an M-4, or similar weapon (like the SOCOM SCAR). These magazines cost $30 each (about 70 percent more than a standard magazine.) These high end magazines also, like the new army magazine, have better springs and a follower that minimizes jams. Troops will still buy commercial magazines, with their own money, just to be on the safe side. The army has now ordered that sort of thing to cease.

Combat troops and their commanders are now contacting Congress about the polymer magazine, which the army has, so far, refused to answer questions about. If Congress demands answers, the procurement bureaucrats will have to answer, under oath. These guys can blow off the troops, but Congress is another matter.

**The Pastor** · 1st June 2012, 09:14

Originally Posted by jono035

Cheers! Should bring one of the MNs out to the range, show up RM's aim...

we all know my aims pretty average, but it all comes down to practice aye.

**jono035** · 1st June 2012, 09:28

Originally Posted by renegade master

we all know my aims pretty average, but it all comes down to practice aye.

I dunno, was actually thinking that having Indy along would make me feel better about my aim

**Flip** · 1st June 2012, 10:29

Well I have just had a win.

A few years ago I purchased a 17HMR Excell arms s/s ball pup semi from Hunting and Fishing in Wellington and it came with a life time warranty. The firing pin broke so I took it into H+F Christchurch who first said I had to take it to the Wellington shop (I was living in Chch at the time) and then said they were not honoring the warranty because the importer was not importing them anymore (17HMR semi problem with cases seperating). I left the rifle with them and thought what a rip off and waste of $2.5K and forgot all about it.

Now this Excell 17hmr semi is brillant, accurate, fast, easy to carry and I have never had any of the reported 17HMR problems with it and I have easily put a couple of thousand rounds through it.

18 months latter H+F sent me one of those junk emails with their Facebook page attached. So early this morning I asked them to put this right before I take it further. They called me back 2 hours latter saying they will see what they can do.

Go Facebook, is all I can say!

**sAsLEX** · 1st June 2012, 16:40

Originally Posted by Flip

Well I have just had a win.

A few years ago I purchased a 17HMR Excell arms s/s ball pup semi from Hunting and Fishing in Wellington and it came with a life time warranty. The firing pin broke so I took it into H+F Christchurch who first said I had to take it to the Wellington shop (I was living in Chch at the time) and then said they were not honoring the warranty because the importer was not importing them anymore (17HMR semi problem with cases seperating). I left the rifle with them and thought what a rip off and waste of $2.5K and forgot all about it.

Now this Excell 17hmr semi is brillant, accurate, fast, easy to carry and I have never had any of the reported 17HMR problems with it and I have easily put a couple of thousand rounds through it.

18 months latter H+F sent me one of those junk emails with their Facebook page attached. So early this morning I asked them to put this right before I take it further. They called me back 2 hours latter saying they will see what they can do.

Go Facebook, is all I can say!

Thats pretty poor about the different store thing.

I use Noel Leamings a bit as I can purchase anywhere in the country and pick up at a different store, and they all cover each other.

Keep us informed, been thinking a 17HMR would be nice in the cupboard.

**Monsterbishi** · 1st June 2012, 17:15

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

Keep us informed, been thinking a 17HMR would be nice in the cupboard.

.17hmr's are great as long as you aren't fussed about how expensive the ammo is, or try to hunt anything larger than a goat - oh yeah, and definately get a suppressor!

**Indiana_Jones** · 3rd June 2012, 11:51

Originally Posted by jono035

I dunno, was actually thinking that having Indy along would make me feel better about my aim

You're a good bloke Jono lol

-Indy

**jono035** · 3rd June 2012, 21:48

The AR got her first outing today and performed pretty well.

Grouped 6 shots at about 4" at 100m, largely due to my own incompetence, a very unstable shooting technique (see video below) and a scope with eye relief that was really awkward for shooting prone. At 25m when sighting in off a wooden bench, 3 shots were just a ragged hole.

The Remington factory subs weren't cycling the action with the suppressor (even with the pistol length gas system and huge gas port) so some trickiness may be required there. I'm sure playing with some different speed powders and Quickload I'll be able to find a good combo that allows for some decent pressure at the gas port, though. I don't want to use a lighter buffer spring because I'd ideally like to keep it usable with supers.

http://youtu.be/hEo82kPXAwE Subsonics Suppressed
http://youtu.be/D-6GYrHTsaw Supersonics Suppressed

**carver** · 4th June 2012, 18:02

Originally Posted by jono035

The AR got her first outing today and performed pretty well.

Grouped 6 shots at about 4" at 100m, largely due to my own incompetence, a very unstable shooting technique (see video below) and a scope with eye relief that was really awkward for shooting prone. At 25m when sighting in off a wooden bench, 3 shots were just a ragged hole.

The Remington factory subs weren't cycling the action with the suppressor (even with the pistol length gas system and huge gas port) so some trickiness may be required there. I'm sure playing with some different speed powders and Quickload I'll be able to find a good combo that allows for some decent pressure at the gas port, though. I don't want to use a lighter buffer spring because I'd ideally like to keep it usable with supers.

http://youtu.be/hEo82kPXAwE Subsonics Suppressed
http://youtu.be/D-6GYrHTsaw Supersonics Suppressed

is all Remington ammo shit?

**jono035** · 4th June 2012, 18:08

Originally Posted by carver

is all Remington ammo shit?

Dunno. The subs were leaving a bit of unburned powder, so it could be that they were loaded to be subsonic in a longer barrel with carbine length gas.

Other than not cycling the action, it shot well enough.

**Akzle** · 4th June 2012, 18:46

Originally Posted by carver

is all Remington ammo shit?

no.
ammo choice is highly subjective. different strokes for diffrent folks and all that.
some guns will shoot some ammo well and others not at all, even two of the same model side by side will perform diffrently, not to mention the variation in batches (getting much better with brand ammo)
factory sub loads are usually pretty consistent with production rifles, remove barrel length and use wildcat cartridges and there will be a good lot of trial and error, it's not unknown for bullets to actually stop in the barrel. there was a good article in Guns N Huntin a while back about sorting out sub loads (particularly as game loads).

i've read a bit about the 300 whisper (mainly because reloading .224 bullets is PITA) and i quite liked the idea...
i'm guessing they're seated to a comparable OAL, and the gas port is a ways forward of the chamber...

oh the puzzlement.
have a read through 6mmbr.com, a lot of ar15 tubeguns.. they know things and might have advice on the cycling issue.
(although they're more into putting lots of bullets into small spaces at a mile than wildcattery)