The firearm thread

[jono035]

I'm a Serious Shooters fan. They have always been good and patient with me.

I've found SAI and Reloader's Supplies to be a bit more 'neutral' in their advice. I always seem to be getting ranted at by the Serious Shooters crowd. It's not so bad when it's Richard doing the ranting because I normally come away having learned something, but a couple of the other guys there can be a bit less useful.

I went in there when I was first getting into reloading and one of the guys tried to sell me a several hundred dollar Hornady powder thrower because it was "ultra-accurate" and why reload if not to be accurate blah blah blah. Didn't once listen to the fact that I was a) a student at the time and b) shooting centerfire pistol, hardly 600m benchrest...

Ended up buying a complete Lee kit + Hornady dies from Reloaders Supplies for about the same price as the thrower. Used the extra money to buy a brass tumbler and an accurate set of digital scales which then proceeded to tell me that the 'worthless, just toss it straight in the bin' Lee powder measure was throwing powder charges +/- 0.1 grain over 50 throws (I think I had one which was -0.2 or something, to be fair). To this day, it still is. After moving I didn't reload for about a year and just worked my way through my stockpile of ammo. Finally got the bench set up and started loading again, didn't even adjust the powder thrower. Went straight back to throwing 4.2gn from the first throw. The Dillon powder measure that I'm using now is actually slightly less accurate, I think. It's normally within 0.1 but I still get the occaisional 0.2.

Either way, they definitely know their stuff, but it can be so hard separating personal opinion from good advice that I tend to make note and research online afterwards.

[Juniper]

I've found SAI and Reloader's Supplies to be a bit more 'neutral' in their advice. I always seem to be getting ranted at by the Serious Shooters crowd. It's not so bad when it's Richard doing the ranting because I normally come away having learned something, but a couple of the other guys there can be a bit less useful.

I went in there when I was first getting into reloading and one of the guys tried to sell me a several hundred dollar Hornady powder thrower because it was "ultra-accurate" and why reload if not to be accurate blah blah blah. Didn't once listen to the fact that I was a) a student at the time and b) shooting centerfire pistol, hardly 600m benchrest...

Ended up buying a complete Lee kit + Hornady dies from Reloaders Supplies for about the same price as the thrower. Used the extra money to buy a brass tumbler and an accurate set of digital scales which then proceeded to tell me that the 'worthless, just toss it straight in the bin' Lee powder measure was throwing powder charges +/- 0.1 grain over 50 throws (I think I had one which was -0.2 or something, to be fair). To this day, it still is. After moving I didn't reload for about a year and just worked my way through my stockpile of ammo. Finally got the bench set up and started loading again, didn't even adjust the powder thrower. Went straight back to throwing 4.2gn from the first throw. The Dillon powder measure that I'm using now is actually slightly less accurate, I think. It's normally within 0.1 but I still get the occaisional 0.2.

Either way, they definitely know their stuff, but it can be so hard separating personal opinion from good advice that I tend to make note and research online afterwards.

Oh I haven't started reloading yet. I can't put reloads through a club gun. But my dad may be working in that for me!!

They were helpful to me for things like what do I do in the pistol room of a shop. I mean I know what to do and how to handle a gun on the range, but in a shop it just felt wrong.
And I always get a good price.

How much did the setup set you back?

I'm kinda thinking just to bully my landlord into letting me install the safe. That's the only thing holding me back. I did want to get my B and E together but a bigger safe would be pushing it.

[jono035]

Oh I haven't started reloading yet. I can't put reloads through a club gun. But my dad may be working in that for me!!

They were helpful to me for things like what do I do in the pistol room of a shop. I mean I know what to do and how to handle a gun on the range, but in a shop it just felt wrong.
And I always get a good price.

How much did the setup set you back?

I'm kinda thinking just to bully my landlord into letting me install the safe. That's the only thing holding me back. I did want to get my B and E together but a bigger safe would be pushing it.

Everyone wants to get their B and E together but I didn't. I was in the same position, couldn't really put a huge safe anywhere. I got one of the small pistol safes and now that I've got space, I'm considering one of the huge 13 gun E-cats. Also, there is very little point to owning an E-cat at the moment, beside the magazine capacity increase. A B is by far the better thing to get quickly. Being able to get away from the Club guns and starting reloading will pay for itself, and the safe, in very short order with the way ammo prices are at the moment.

I wrote down a bunch of notes on how I got started reloading for a couple of guys at Howick.

I did a lot of talking to Chris first (Mr Merde) and he helped me out a load with regard to gear selection etc. There is a very definite bias towards Lee gear, but I think it's more complex than 'buy the best you can afford' because ultimately people get into reloading primarily to save money.

My approach was to get a cheap, simple press and then spend money on the things that will actually make a noticeable difference to the process. Getting a single-stage means you can go through and learn how to do everything methodically and get set up to tune your loads, rather than just pick one and crank the handle to produce ammo (plenty of time for that later).

The things I bought:
Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit (single stage press, basic scales, powder thrower, all sorts, case lube) - $250
Digital Scales - $100 (being able to quickly verify that your thrower is set right and accurate is critical)
Brass Tumbler - $200 (optional if you know someone who can tumble your brass for you, it's not a big hassle)
Hornady Dies - $100

And a few other miscellaneous bits and pieces that make life easier but don't really help all that much. So all up, I think I started out at $650 spent. The biggest time saver was the fact that the press has bushing that allow you to remove and install dies accurately with just a 1/4 turn, as opposed to needing to thread them in which can cause seating height issues etc.

I'm still using everything with the XL650 except the press and powder thrower, and I've still got those mounted to the desk for slightly more oddball calibers.

I get about 100 rounds an hour with that setup without too much hassle.

If you get a more complex press down the line, the simple single stage is still really useful for doing short runs of different calibers. For me, that's .44 mag, .300 Blackout and anything else I randomly pick up. Changing calibers on the Dillon is really time consuming and surprisingly expensive.

[Juniper]

Everyone wants to get their B and E together but I didn't. I was in the same position, couldn't really put a huge safe anywhere. I got one of the small pistol safes and now that I've got space, I'm considering one of the huge 13 gun E-cats. Also, there is very little point to owning an E-cat at the moment, beside the magazine capacity increase. A B is by far the better thing to get quickly. Being able to get away from the Club guns and starting reloading will pay for itself, and the safe, in very short order with the way ammo prices are at the moment.

I wrote down a bunch of notes on how I got started reloading for a couple of guys at Howick.

I did a lot of talking to Chris first (Mr Merde) and he helped me out a load with regard to gear selection etc. There is a very definite bias towards Lee gear, but I think it's more complex than 'buy the best you can afford' because ultimately people get into reloading primarily to save money.

My approach was to get a cheap, simple press and then spend money on the things that will actually make a noticeable difference to the process. Getting a single-stage means you can go through and learn how to do everything methodically and get set up to tune your loads, rather than just pick one and crank the handle to produce ammo (plenty of time for that later).

The things I bought:
Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit (single stage press, basic scales, powder thrower, all sorts, case lube) - $250
Digital Scales - $100 (being able to quickly verify that your thrower is set right and accurate is critical)
Brass Tumbler - $200 (optional if you know someone who can tumble your brass for you, it's not a big hassle)
Hornady Dies - $100

And a few other miscellaneous bits and pieces that make life easier but don't really help all that much. So all up, I think I started out at $650 spent. The biggest time saver was the fact that the press has bushing that allow you to remove and install dies accurately with just a 1/4 turn, as opposed to needing to thread them in which can cause seating height issues etc.

I'm still using everything with the XL650 except the press and powder thrower, and I've still got those mounted to the desk for slightly more oddball calibers.

I get about 100 rounds an hour with that setup without too much hassle.

If you get a more complex press down the line, the simple single stage is still really useful for doing short runs of different calibers. For me, that's .44 mag, .300 Blackout and anything else I randomly pick up. Changing calibers on the Dillon is really time consuming and surprisingly expensive.

I've reloaded before, just never bough my own stuff. Whenever I See dad it's "you shoot it, you make it"
The amount of ammo I go through a single stage would be very impractical. Ideally I'd like to shoot 2-300 a day at the range. I'd like to be looking at doing 1,500-2,000 rounds loaded in a full day. (I really enjoy reloading)
Currently the only caliber I shoot is 9mm.

[bobsmith]

I'm with Jono in that I'm always happier shopping at reloaders. Everything's just a bit cheaper and without all the extra "sales talk". I got both my Lee single stage (which michael has now as I sold my 308 and I'm only reloading 9mm at the moment) and dillon 550 for 9mm from reloaders.

Seeing that you're mainly going to be just doing 9mm and giong through several hundred rounds per week I say go straight to a progressive reloader if you can. The best I've managed on single stage is about 60-70 round per minute as opposed to 200-250 on my dillion (though I'm not very fast as I always seem to have issues trying to get the primers to bloody seat properly and my current reloading bench flexes like hell so I have to brace it when I seat primers) so wouldn't be very practical for loading large number of pistol rounds.

Mind you single stage was great for loading those odd calibers that I don't shoot a lot and also my rifle rounds.

Remember to budget for things like powder scale (hornady digital ones are cheap at 80 bucks), case tumbler (I much prefer this to ultrasonic cleaner as it takes less of your time), case gauge, something to mount the press onto, etc but I'm sure your dad can tell you more about that than me lol.

With my 550B, everything all up not including any reloading components cost about $1000. (from memory the press and dies were only about 700-800) But then I've already put about 2000 rounds through it so with saving of around 20 cents per round, I've already saved about 400 in the 6 months or so we've owned the press. If you want to go for 650B for the auto indexing feature that will cost a fair bit more. 550B is all manually indexed so a bit slower but not too bad. You also have to manually feed the brass and projectiles.

In any case, I suggest doing all the study on the internet BEFORE you go into a store lol.

[jono035]

Yeah, all good advice there, Bob.

If you're already reloading and you've got someone who you can rely on to help you get set up and answer any questions then maybe just get whatever you're used to.

I went for a 650 because I'm in a similar situation to you, if I'm going up to Warkworth to do an IPSC shoot then I'd like to be able to crank out 200-300 rounds without spending hours at the press. I also figure that it's going to be my dedicated pistol press where I can set it up for whatever caliber I'm shooting at the moment (not planning on changing from 9mm given I own a couple of them). For anything else (.303, .300 blackout, .44 mag, .223 once I get a second upper) then I don't mind taking an hour to load up 50-100 rounds because I won't be going through anywhere near as many. I'm also much more likely to want to tweak and change those calibers as opposed to the 9mm where I just want to be able to bash it out.

I'd still say it's worth getting the Lee single stage just simply because it's much more forgiving if you want to change calibers. It literally takes seconds to switch your die, shellplate and primer system compared to the Dillon offerings which seem expensive/time consuming even on the 550. It's also only an extra $40 or so for ALL the shellplates and then another $30 or so per caliber for the quick-change inserts. If you wanted to make life a little easier on yourself you could get multiple powder throwers pretty cheap, too, which would save a lot of hassle.

I've been thinking about it since I got the 650 and it's a bit more temperamental than I thought it would be. Getting the shellplate indexing cleanly has required quite a few little tweaks and shifts and it's still not quite there yet. Thinking back, I think the 550 is probably the better option unless you're really needing to crank the ammo out.

Do you really go through 300 rounds a week? That seems pretty out there to me. I go through ~200 in an entire day's shooting at Warkworth and probably more like 50 in a morning's shooting at HPC (although they do run things in a slightly odd fashion and everyones pretty slow there).

Edit: Never mind, just noticed that you said 'ideally' 300 rounds a week. I tried doing the whole 'reloading to stockpile' thing and found it got really tiring and distracting after a while. For me it makes more sense to keep everything set up and ready to go so I can sit down and do a couple of hundred rounds one evening during the week. It also means if anything ends up going slightly wrong you don't have a huge quantity of screwed up ammo (like the guy at HPC a couple of weeks back who got 2 squibs in one morning, what the hell...).

[Swoop]

I'd still say it's worth getting the Lee single stage just simply because it's much more forgiving if you want to change calibres.

I have to second that. I still have my single stage Lee, that I started off with.
A solid steel press would be even better than the alloy that Lee use however.

Progressive press is a Hornady. Great for putting out rounds but not at the rate that a Dillon can perform! (the problem might be the nut on the end of the lever though...)

[jono035]

I have the same issue with the nut on the end of mine, too... Odd!

The casting on the Lee is pretty solid so I've had no issues with it but I've never tried it with any larger rifle cases or similar. Is the desire for a steel frame based on an issue you've had or just kind of future proofing?

[leathel]

I always thought I would never need a Dylan press but the AR has upped the rounds I shoot..... was getting enough rounds to load with all the bolt guns...... Next big purchase for reloading

I will keep my lee cast press for loading the low round rifles and for the larger cases

[bobsmith]

Do you really go through 300 rounds a week? That seems pretty out there to me. I go through ~200 in an entire day's shooting at Warkworth and probably more like 50 in a morning's shooting at HPC (although they do run things in a slightly odd fashion and everyones pretty slow there).

Edit: Never mind, just noticed that you said 'ideally' 300 rounds a week. I tried doing the whole 'reloading to stockpile' thing and found it got really tiring and distracting after a while. For me it makes more sense to keep everything set up and ready to go so I can sit down and do a couple of hundred rounds one evening during the week. It also means if anything ends up going slightly wrong you don't have a huge quantity of screwed up ammo (like the guy at HPC a couple of weeks back who got 2 squibs in one morning, what the hell...).

Well, my wife shoots IPSC as well.... And at APC the round count is around 120-160 rounds per weekend match. Plus practices so yeah quite often 300+ rounds per week though I sometimes get to offload some of that to the wife

I'd love to have the auto-indexing of the 650 but I simply couldn't justify the price... By the looks of it with the case feeder, etc it would have been at least 6-$700 more than the 550?

The only issue I have with the 550 is the damned primers not sitting properly! I don't see how to fix this unless I deprime the cases and clean the primer pockets before putting it through the press.... does anyone else have this issue?

edit - I end up chucking out 1 in 30 shells or so because the primer wouldn't seat properly and I don't want to deprime a case with a live primer.

[jono035]

Good stuff, Leathel.

Bob: Was directing that more at Juniper. I can see how you would get there with 2 people shooting twice a week, that's for sure.

I think it cost me 1500 flat with dies and with the strong mount etc. The one thing I didn't get in the mix yet is the powder check die which is the main reason I went for the 650.

I was sketchy about the 550 originally because of the possibility of double stroking the press without advancing but it's surprisingly easy to do that on the 650 when something goes wrong.

Edit: I haven't noticed any primer issues, is the primer system the same between the presses?

[bobsmith]

Ah that makes much more sense. (I actually went back and read what we posted lol)

Hmmm I think so. I wonder if it's just because the stand for the press has a bit of flex to it and I can't get enough force on the lever as I push on it to seat the primer. Maybe I'll see how I go after I get this reloading bench built but I have to clear this immobile car out of the garage first.....

[scumdog]

Bought a Remington bi-pod for my Sako 22, $69.

'Easily fitted' it said...yeah right...

An hour later and a bucket of bad language and it was fitted.

[jono035]

Bought a Remington bi-pod for my Sako 22, $69.

'Easily fitted' it said...yeah right...

An hour later and a bucket of bad language and it was fitted.

Did you have to fit or move the sling stud that it clips to or something?

[scumdog]

Did you have to fit or move the sling stud that it clips to or something?

Had to take the sling loop off the stud.

And then found the stud seemed too wide for the clamping system to fit over (Maybe Euro studs are larger diameter than US ones?).

So had to dismantle half the mechanism to fit it on then reassemble it.

All good now though.


BTW: Sanded the barrel channel on the fore-end to float the barrel - worth it on a 22?