The firearm thread

[nseagoon]

Yeah, I keep seeing the e-mails go out from Trevor but I've never been. Do you have any idea what the IPSC course is like out there?

Also, I've tried asking if the Warkworth shoots were IPSC or just stationary targets but haven't heard anything back about that, either. Should probably just go along.

I enjoy DSA. it's not as good overall as Warkworth or Auckland pistol club but the chaps are good and we make do with the 25m range. generally 3 or 4 sets of targets followed by steel plates and a popper or two at the back.
Occasionally there's a 3 gun shoot there and the 100m range is utilised which provides more room and a larger course of fire.

Warkworth is almost completely dedicated to IPSC. It's a bit of a trek out there and make sure you organise it beforehand as they don't take kindly to visitors, even if you're just there for a look not a shoot

[jono035]

I enjoy DSA. it's not as good overall as Warkworth or Auckland pistol club but the chaps are good and we make do with the 25m range. generally 3 or 4 sets of targets followed by steel plates and a popper or two at the back.
Occasionally there's a 3 gun shoot there and the 100m range is utilised which provides more room and a larger course of fire.

Warkworth is almost completely dedicated to IPSC. It's a bit of a trek out there and make sure you organise it beforehand as they don't take kindly to visitors, even if you're just there for a look not a shoot

Yeah, I went to a couple of the early IPSC days that one of the Warkworth guys put on for the CSI guys. The facility is pretty amazing up there. I've seen a couple more mentions of events at Warkworth for CSI shooters, but I don't know if it's IPSC or just target shooting.

[jono035]

Shows the basic idea, anyway. Without a single stack 1911 mag, it's a little difficult!

I did have to... uhhh.... 'encourage' it into place... With a mallet... But it left some nice marks on the adapter so I know where the model needs to be taken in.

It looks like it seats home where the feed lips would normally be quite nicely. I can bring the position for the 1911 mag quite a lot more forward if need be, too, to bridge the gap between the end of the 1911 mag and the barrel feed ramp.

I'll see if someone has a spare 1911 single stack mag that I can borrow on Sunday, perhaps one with a busted spring or missing follower or something.

[sAsLEX]

Check this 3D printed model out - Comes out of the printer ready to go, with only the propeller needing to be stuck on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9tOc47ceWQ

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/theojansen

[jono035]

They showed one of those models on an episode of QI. Theo Jansen's stuff is pretty amazing. I've seen someone who had a model for a walking coffee table based on one, I think...

My fiance wants one so I've taken a couple of attempts at printing them. The models that I've used have been designed for a Laser Sintering based process (like the one from Shapeways) so they won't really work with a FDM type printer. Instead I might just have to import them and tweak the design a bit.

[sAsLEX]

They showed one of those models on an episode of QI. Theo Jansen's stuff is pretty amazing. I've seen someone who had a model for a walking coffee table based on one, I think...

My fiance wants one so I've taken a couple of attempts at printing them. The models that I've used have been designed for a Laser Sintering based process (like the one from Shapeways) so they won't really work with a FDM type printer. Instead I might just have to import them and tweak the design a bit.

QI was on last night, its on all the time on Dave

[nseagoon]

Shows the basic idea, anyway. Without a single stack 1911 mag, it's a little difficult!

I did have to... uhhh.... 'encourage' it into place... With a mallet... But it left some nice marks on the adapter so I know where the model needs to be taken in.

It looks like it seats home where the feed lips would normally be quite nicely. I can bring the position for the 1911 mag quite a lot more forward if need be, too, to bridge the gap between the end of the 1911 mag and the barrel feed ramp.

I'll see if someone has a spare 1911 single stack mag that I can borrow on Sunday, perhaps one with a busted spring or missing follower or something.

I only have a s&w 4506 so my mags would be no good for testing fitting.
I wouldn't worry about the adaptor having to be forced in, it's almost garanteed not to move, and it's no good putting 303 mags in because it'll be a 45 barrel.

that makes me think. I might have a lip put in as well as the extractor modified to help hold the round in. I haven't tried but I wouldn't want someone putting a mag of 303 in and having a round somehow chamber.... I don't think it would though.

putting the mag as far forwards as possible without compromising structual integrity would probably be the go. but confirming this would probably have to wait until the rifle is built. for all I know Robbie might have a long feed ramp or mag might end up with the wrong entry angle.

I've decided to confirm details with Gunworks late April and have him do the work starting May.

In other news it was good to get out there and do it on Saturday. I managed to sight the AR in (only 25m) with the new scope, I gave it enough elevation which should have it almost perfect when I go to sight it in for 100m. I also tuned the gas and trialed the new spearmags and the bolt hold open on all of them.
I'm also happy with the balance the gunworks suppressor has with the rifle. snap shooting and holding on target aren't a problem and it only weighs 300gm
also My 45 rounds were seated too far inside the case which was causing the paper to rip instead of punch through. I've found a good middle ground so the round is far enough in that the round chambers reliably and minimal gap to the rifling.

[jono035]

I only have a s&w 4506 so my mags would be no good for testing fitting.
I wouldn't worry about the adaptor having to be forced in, it's almost garanteed not to move, and it's no good putting 303 mags in because it'll be a 45 barrel.

that makes me think. I might have a lip put in as well as the extractor modified to help hold the round in. I haven't tried but I wouldn't want someone putting a mag of 303 in and having a round somehow chamber.... I don't think it would though.

putting the mag as far forwards as possible without compromising structual integrity would probably be the go. but confirming this would probably have to wait until the rifle is built. for all I know Robbie might have a long feed ramp or mag might end up with the wrong entry angle.

I've decided to confirm details with Gunworks late April and have him do the work starting May.

In other news it was good to get out there and do it on Saturday. I managed to sight the AR in (only 25m) with the new scope, I gave it enough elevation which should have it almost perfect when I go to sight it in for 100m. I also tuned the gas and trialed the new spearmags and the bolt hold open on all of them.
I'm also happy with the balance the gunworks suppressor has with the rifle. snap shooting and holding on target aren't a problem and it only weighs 300gm
also My 45 rounds were seated too far inside the case which was causing the paper to rip instead of punch through. I've found a good middle ground so the round is far enough in that the round chambers reliably and minimal gap to the rifling.

Nice collection there. What's the scope on your AR? I've just got a cheap Nikko Stirling on mine, but it works nicely for the useful ranges of subsonic 300 Blackout.

With further reading, it looks like you need to modify the .45ACP mags in some way, either by filing the feed lips down or opening them out slightly so the bolt can reliably pick up a round. I haven't seen anyone really explain why this is the case, but it looks like the magazine might also need to be at a different angle to the bolt than the regular magazine for reliable feeding. It looks like this is probably all down to getting the feed right.

How much barrel were you planning to use and how much leftover do you think you'd have?

[nseagoon]

Nice collection there. What's the scope on your AR? I've just got a cheap Nikko Stirling on mine, but it works nicely for the useful ranges of subsonic 300 Blackout.

With further reading, it looks like you need to modify the .45ACP mags in some way, either by filing the feed lips down or opening them out slightly so the bolt can reliably pick up a round. I haven't seen anyone really explain why this is the case, but it looks like the magazine might also need to be at a different angle to the bolt than the regular magazine for reliable feeding. It looks like this is probably all down to getting the feed right.

How much barrel were you planning to use and how much leftover do you think you'd have?

It's a Burris Fullfield 3-9 with a ballistic drop reticule. I quite like it as it's not intrusive on the reticule. I've found other cheap ones such as Redfield are bulky and quite cluttered. I'm thinking I'll probably build a 300 blackout upper around the same time I attempt the 45 AR.

I'd attempt the mags as is at first, without modification. I think if I replicate the same angle to the feed ramp pistols use then it should be alright. I imagine it will look quite angled compared to the line of the carbine itself.

I'm not sure how much barrel I'll use. I can't get any decent answers from the states because they mostly have fake suppressors and are 16" minimum to meet their short barrel rifle laws.
The original was 8 odd inches long. What I was thinking is I'll do more research and see if I can find a "optimum"barrel length for a 230 grain load (probably the easiest available projectile)
I'm guessing I may be using between 8 and 10 inches as I'll be wanting velocity close but not too close to supersonic (1100 odd fps depending on the weather) I should be aiming for 1000-1050fps for a standard 45 load.

I believe vulcan barrel blanks are 30" long but I'll have to check.
I'll probably look at using around 10 inches maybe slightly longer for the AR experiment

That leaves roughly 10 inches left over that I'm sure I'll have to find another home for when finished ;-) . It all really depends what length I decide to go to for the De lisle as to how much is left over.

[jono035]

It's a Burris Fullfield 3-9 with a ballistic drop reticule. I quite like it as it's not intrusive on the reticule. I've found other cheap ones such as Redfield are bulky and quite cluttered. I'm thinking I'll probably build a 300 blackout upper around the same time I attempt the 45 AR.

I'd attempt the mags as is at first, without modification. I think if I replicate the same angle to the feed ramp pistols use then it should be alright. I imagine it will look quite angled compared to the line of the carbine itself.

I'm not sure how much barrel I'll use. I can't get any decent answers from the states because they mostly have fake suppressors and are 16" minimum to meet their short barrel rifle laws.
The original was 8 odd inches long. What I was thinking is I'll do more research and see if I can find a "optimum"barrel length for a 230 grain load (probably the easiest available projectile)
I'm guessing I may be using between 8 and 10 inches as I'll be wanting velocity close but not too close to supersonic (1100 odd fps depending on the weather) I should be aiming for 1000-1050fps for a standard 45 load.

I believe vulcan barrel blanks are 30" long but I'll have to check.
I'll probably look at using around 10 inches maybe slightly longer for the AR experiment

That leaves roughly 10 inches left over that I'm sure I'll have to find another home for when finished ;-) . It all really depends what length I decide to go to for the De lisle as to how much is left over.

I've seen a lot of mention to 7-8" for most 45 loads. If you're loading a custom round dedicated for the De Lisle you could probably get a bit more pressure into it and use a slower powder to make better use of a long barrel. There's a lot of headroom for the 230gn .45s before they transition to supersonic. The downside is that lots of slow powder normally means higher muzzle pressure so more noise.

This is essentially the inverse of the issue I'm having with my .300 blackout. If I use a fast powder, I can use stuff-all to get the bullet to the transition speed and have low muzzle pressure, but it's low and dropping by the time it hits the gas port. If I use a little more slower powder then I can push the peak pressure pulse out towards the gas port and have better operating pressure but then I've got to really struggle to stay subsonic with 100% powder burn by the time the gas port is uncovered.

According to QuickLoad, a 6 grains of AP70N is absolute max load at 230gn and 32mm COAL (interestingly, that's almost an entire grain above ADI's recommendations, I'd treat that load with real suspicion in a pistol) and gets you to 1000fps in a 6" barrel. Max load is still only 21kpsi which is bloody low as most things go. I'm not sure how much of that is case strength vs barrel strength, but any rifle barrel is going to be far, far stronger than you need for that. It's whether the .45 brass itself is up to it, which probably depends a lot on how tight or loose the chamber gets cut.

Either way, that provides a reasonable 'minimum' length I guess. I'd be reasonably comfortable that you could get to the transition zone out of a 8" barrel without pushing the round too hard.

For AS 30 or AP50N you wouldn't quite get there in 8-10", but the muzzle pressures would be lower.

Anyway, interesting thoughts.

[Mr Merde]

Oh, this is a Kimber 1911 pistol, and my shooting is generally appalling so a 150mm group at 15m is amazing in my books. With the Glock I'm easily twice that.

It's .45ACP shooting 230gn round nose Berry's projectiles. Not the most accurate bullet in that caliber (or so I keep hearing) but probably still a lot better than I can do with it.

So far I'm seeing how many rounds I can put through it before it starts to flake out. I'm 300-400 rounds in without much more than swabbing down the barrel and it still cycles sweet, no excessive build-up anywhere, so I think we're going to get along just fine

the 1911 platform and the .45 ACP are my favcourite combination.
Had an AMT Hardballer in the UK with a 2lb trigger, Dwyer Group gripper and slide to frame fit.

Sweet to shoot.
Accurate as hell.
Heavy punching.

[jono035]

the 1911 platform and the .45 ACP are my favcourite combination.
Had an AMT Hardballer in the UK with a 2lb trigger, Dwyer Group gripper and slide to frame fit.

Sweet to shoot.
Accurate as hell.
Heavy punching.

I was never a huge fan of how meaty the STI/Para double stack grips were, so the polymer frame feels really nice, almost the same as a single stacker.

It fits me nicely, points well and I was at home with the trigger instantly, as opposed to the Glock where I still find myself riding it too far foward and then yanking it back really badly on double taps etc.

There's also just something nice about an exposed hammer gun (especially in single action so you don't have any of this first round double-action crazyness...).

The one problem I've noticed with it is that there is a pin of some kind in the windage adjustment on the rear sight that is loose and starts sticking out. I've pushed it back in but it slipped out again and I slashed my finger open on it last weekend. I'll grab a photo of it at some point and see if there are any opinions about it on here. It looks like it might be a detent spring or something...

[Hoon]

As for the Steyr Akzle, they're not particularly modular. without looking at the A3 failed US project the NZ/Oz ones don't have availability for other calibres (Lithgow .22LR tests were unsuccessful), they have proprietary magazines, even with a nicely cleaned and graphite lubed trigger they're still not the greatest. I haven't used the Gun City ones but I do like the look of them with the 22" bull barrel, but they aren't $4k nice.
I'm not saying the AR platform is the be all and end all either but at $2k for a half decent one, then say $200 in parts from the states (or even a set of $10 JP springs) and you have a half decent rifle.

I shoot a lot of Steyr in Military competitions and it is a very capable rifle in the right hands. I do agree though that there are better options but when it comes free you can't really complain. In fact I'm thinking of getting into civilian shooting for more exposure and have been told that building/buying an AR15 and doing Service Rifle shooting is the way to go. As much as I love the Steyr and know it inside out, I wouldn't spend my own money on it

[nseagoon]

I shoot a lot of Steyr in Military competitions and it is a very capable rifle in the right hands. I do agree though that there are better options but when it comes free you can't really complain. In fact I'm thinking of getting into civilian shooting for more exposure and have been told that building/buying an AR15 and doing Service Rifle shooting is the way to go. As much as I love the Steyr and know it inside out, I wouldn't spend my own money on it

I shoot it too and it does shoot better than me but isn't too practical for personal customisation due to its proprietary nature.
The best thing for them is a well lubricated trigger group, graphite or the like.

as for an AR I'd suggest build your own lower, very easy to import the parts especially for A cat and not hard to do yourself.
the only annoying part is waiting for the parts to come off back order in the states due to their mental buying there. I'm still waiting for a piece of aluminium tubing (a2 buffer tube) to come off back order and it's been 10 week already, and it takes DPMS 6 weeks to manufacture a special order lower parts kit (one without an A2 pistol grip) apparently they can't just remove the grip from a current kit.

[jono035]

I shoot it too and it does shoot better than me but isn't too practical for personal customisation due to its proprietary nature.
The best thing for them is a well lubricated trigger group, graphite or the like.

as for an AR I'd suggest build your own lower, very easy to import the parts especially for A cat and not hard to do yourself.
the only annoying part is waiting for the parts to come off back order in the states due to their mental buying there. I'm still waiting for a piece of aluminium tubing (a2 buffer tube) to come off back order and it's been 10 week already, and it takes DPMS 6 weeks to manufacture a special order lower parts kit (one without an A2 pistol grip) apparently they can't just remove the grip from a current kit.

I saw a .45ACP lower on trademe and started to consider that. Any thoughts you've got regarding good places to purchase parts that don't ream you too much on the shipping would be appreciated. What do you think the total cost of building up from a stripped lower would be using base level parts?