The firearm thread

[husaberg]

They may change Act later to include rifles like the SKS, but the order in council is clear and the courts are bound to interpret all laws and regulations conservatively so as not to extend powers of the State beyond the letter of the law and the intention of Parliament.

An SKS sold as an A-Cat 5-round fixed magazine rifle cannot take a detachable magazine in standard form and has to be (now) illegally converted/modified before it is capable of fitting a detachable magazine and so fall within the new classification of an MSSA. Converting any A-Cat to MSSA regardless of the definition of what an MSSA is at the time, has always been illegal. Just as sawing off a shotgun is an illegal modification that turns it into a prohibited weapon. Just as now putting a magazine holding more than 10 rounds on to .22 now makes by definition an MSSA when 15 rounds used to be the limit.

The words used is "capable of", not "capable of, or capable by modification of" and the ease of difficult with which it is rendered capable isn't the issue. It either capable is or it isnt.

You might want to read the order again.
the order covers all assult rifles and semi autos of larger capacity that 22.

Following the Christchurch terrorist attack, the Government moved quickly to reclassify semi-automatic weapons with a calibre greater than .22 as MSSA.

The sks needs no mods to have a detachable magazine it just needs the magazine fitted. You suggesting it needs some kind of modification to do this is wrong.
the magazine is the mod. other than some need a bit of samndpaper work on the wood.

Same as it is with a AR15 was prior, it was then with the magazine was the modified. and illegal.
Or are you trying to say the Ar15 is now still legal as long as it has a small mag? becuause thats just stupid talk.

The SKS is capable of have a larger magazine fitted any amount of your trying to say it wont change this basic fact.

A semi-automatic firearm capable of being used with a detachable magazine which holds more than five cartridges

is clear
Just as a AR15 is not a A Class rifle anymore no mater what size mag is fitted neither is a SKS anymore.
As for below, try again

The words used is "capable of", not "capable of,

Well said that man.

Maybe you can explain the difference with capable of or capable of.
Of show the modifications needed to fit the larger mags.

[pritch]

After Aramoana John Banks introduced a new firearms licencing system. He said words to the effect, "I had to do something and this is what I did."

Some shooters of my acquaintance are a bit put out about the new restrictions. I'm more realistic/pessimistic. Since Aramoana I have thought that we were one mass shooting from a semi auto ban. That shooting has happened and now the ban.

I have just the one semi auto but I don't think it's caught up in the ban. If it is, I'll take the money and buy something that's still legal. Preferably something that can take some of my existing stock of consumables.

On an unrelated note. Following a rather nasty bike crash on SH43, "The Forgotten World Highway", a helicopter was called to uplift the rider. While the chopper was idling in a paddock beside the road a farmer rode up on his four wheeler carrying a Ruger Mini14 with several banana mags sticking out of his pockets. Presumably he thought someone was stealing his stock.

My first thought was that his ability as a gun slinger was on a par with Sir Peter Blake's. Blake was a great sailor but a fatally crap gunfighter.

[husaberg]

After Aramoana John Banks introduced a new firearms licencing system. He said words to the effect, "I had to do something and this is what I did."

Some shooters of my acquaintance are a bit put out about the new restrictions. I'm more realistic/pessimistic. Since Aramoana I have thought that we were one mass shooting from a semi auto ban. That shooting has happened and now the ban.

I have just the one semi auto but I don't think it's caught up in the ban. If it is, I'll take the money and buy something that's still legal. Preferably something that can take some of my existing stock of consumables.

On an unrelated note. Following a rather nasty bike crash on SH43, "The Forgotten World Highway", a helicopter was called to uplift the rider. While the chopper was idling in a paddock beside the road a farmer rode up on his four wheeler carrying a Ruger Mini14 with several banana mags sticking out of his pockets. Presumably he thought someone was stealing his stock.

My first thought was that his ability as a gun slinger was on a par with Sir Peter Blake's. Blake was a great sailor but a fatally crap gunfighter.

I just found this on the Ex defense force SLR's.

The Defence Force sold 3000 of these firearms in the late 1980s before Aramoana and subsequent MSSA classification.
"Very few [L1A1] are registered with police," according to a briefing to Police Minister Stuart Nash released under the Official Information Act.
"One L1A1 was found in Jan Molenaar's arsenal and another seized in 2016 from a methamphetamine operation in Christchurch."
Where the rest are, nobody knows.
It was a point picked up by the Coroner investigating the deaths of Molenaar and Snee.
The very first recommendation of Coroner David Crerar was New Zealand's gun laws needed to change.
"The policy of tracking MSSAs and confirming the type of firearm that is a MSSA must be looked at again," Coroner Crerar wrote in August 2010.

[pritch]

I just found this on the Ex defense force SLR's.

That figure does not include the SLRs imported new, or those stolen from the army - and there were a few of the latter. Possibly quite a few. And no, I haven’t got one.

The police do register firearms in a somewhat haphazard manner as to description, and it’s possible that many SLRs are listed but under a number of different descriptions.

[husaberg]

That figure does not include the SLRs imported new, or those stolen from the army - and there were a few of the latter. Possibly quite a few. And no, I haven’t got one.

The police do register firearms in a somewhat haphazard manner as to description, and it’s possible that many SLRs are listed but under a number of different descriptions.

It came up on a search about the Dickhead who had the Napier shootout, far to heavy a rifle to be lugging around the bush.
Its a shame with the registry that was one of the things that was too happen after Aromoana.
Hopefully they will do some proper tracking down now of all the grey guns out there.
All those that don't comply with the new gun laws need to consider that they are the criminals with the guns they keep saying are the real problem.

[AllanB]

All those that don't comply with the new gun laws need to consider that they are the criminals with the guns they keep saying are the real problem.

That's the new reality after the law change.

It should be interesting to see the line up of interesting weapons that get turned in when they start the buy back. I predict someone will turn up with something very very wrong but seriously impressive!

[TheDemonLord]

That's the new reality after the law change.

It should be interesting to see the line up of interesting weapons that get turned in when they start the buy back. I predict someone will turn up with something very very wrong but seriously impressive!

There is a question to be asked however:

If the rules of the game change, and retrospectively penalise you - what reason do you have to play within the rules?

[Laava]

There is a question to be asked however:

If the rules of the game change, and retrospectively penalise you - what reason do you have to play within the rules?

you mean like when they took our lifetime licenses off us?

[husaberg]

That's the new reality after the law change.

It should be interesting to see the line up of interesting weapons that get turned in when they start the buy back. I predict someone will turn up with something very very wrong but seriously impressive!

That's reality, but watch how some have a lot of trouble coping with it. Some peopke it seems cant fathom that they are not beyond the law and trying to subvert it.
That itself makes it clear they shouldn't have had the firearms in the first place.
As they clearly cant be trusted to follow the law. which is hilarious seeing as they like to describe themselves a being responsible. One hopes the ones caught with these ilegal guns will be dealt with with imprisonment and forfiture of assets just as other criminals do.

But yes There will be some real interesting stuff in the wood work.
Supposedly a huge percentage never renewed their gun licences when the ten year ones rolled around.

I was reading something about the Samurai sword nutter (who i assume topped himself in prison but the looks of it) it turned out he made a sub-machine gun and killed someone with it.
Best i can find out it was made out of part of other guns.

Police can confirm that the weapon is in fact ‘homemade’ and is further described as ‘of irregular construction, comprising parts from various military weapons and is classified as a restricted weapon’.

the only other use of a sub-machine gun i can recall was Ron Jorganson in the 60's with the Thomposn

What i just found though was the NZ police has 8 of these American 180. It has a top mounted drum, holding of hundreds of .22 rounds. they were build for non lethalish crowd control


I remember a kiwi in one of the wars invented a very fast firing machine gun i cant remember who it was or what war but at the time is was suposed to be the fastest in the world.

[jasonu]

That's the new reality after the law change.

It should be interesting to see the line up of interesting weapons that get turned in when they start the buy back. I predict someone will turn up with something very very wrong but seriously impressive!

I'll bet a brengun or 2 show up

[Laava]

I remember a kiwi in one of the wars invented a very fast firing machine gun i cant remember who it was or what war but at the time is was suposed to be the fastest in the world.

You might be thinking of the Owen gun, but fairly sure that was an aussie bloke.

[pritch]

far to heavy a rifle to be lugging around the bush.

That will come as news to a generation of soldiers who did exactly that - and who remember the SLR fondly.

When the first round of licencing under Bank's regime finished, research could have been undertaken to see who had not renewed their licence and why. That would have required resources though, and none were made available so nothing was done.
An arms amnesty was announced, even though there was already an arms amnesty in progress at the time. And that was that.

[Kickaha]

I remember a kiwi in one of the wars invented a very fast firing machine gun i cant remember who it was or what war but at the time is was suposed to be the fastest in the world.

There was the Charlton but it was only 600 rpm and I know there was another one as I've seen it in Waioru but I can't remember the name

[TheDemonLord]

you mean like when they took our lifetime licenses off us?

No, I don't.

A Licence is functionally very different from the item that is licenced.

[husaberg]

There was the Charlton but it was only 600 rpm and I know there was another one as I've seen it in Waioru but I can't remember the name

No idea it was in number 8 wired i think unless it was ww1 it would have been faster as i think even the sten was more than that.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/lig...tomatic-rifle/
Very intersting story i had never heard of thanks for that.
Edit i think it is it it was just a few paragrapghs in a early edition but it mentioned him takening it in to the paliment building
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...idarticles=232

“I should like to bring to your notice a semiautomatic attachment for service rifle, which I have perfected,” Charlton said when he appeared before the NZ Parliament and the Army to formally present his design in June of 1941. “...The almost complete absence of recoil enables the rifle to be fired from the side through a loop hole. It can be fired at arms length across the body. The attachment is very suitable for anti-aircraft work...” He went on to explain the fully automatic capability, as well
Immediate reaction from the political suits was nervous laughter. How was it possible to make a machine gun from an antique bolt action rifle? He was laughed out of the room, literally, by New Zealand’s prime minister and other parliament members.
However, Charlton was a design genius, had a working prototype, and knew if re-fitted rifles could keep back the horror of the Japanese, the Army was willing to listen and observe. They did so during Charlton’s second demonstration that fall.
According to John C. Osborne, a weapons adviser and researcher at the Queen Elizabeth II Army Memorial Museum in Waiouru, New Zealand, this second application, with a live demonstration, to army officials was conducted successfully in November 1941, with production to begin immediately.
Charlton had an Army contract for converting 1,500 of the Home Guard’s long magazine Lee Metf

You might be thinking of the Owen gun, but fairly sure that was an aussie bloke.

No i dont think it was ever went to production I am familar with the owen from the Sulivans in my childhood i think looked like a sten with the mag on top like a bren only curved they later did another home spun version they used up until the Steyr was issued

That will come as news to a generation of soldiers who did exactly that - and who remember the SLR fondly.

the rifle might be remembered fondly but not the times hit had to be lugged arround the jungle compared to the other options,they were not given, it was also bloody heavy on parade compared to the M16s

When the first round of licencing under Bank's regime finished, research could have been undertaken to see who had not renewed their licence and why. That would have required resources though, and none were made available so nothing was done.
An arms amnesty was announced, even though there was already an arms amnesty in progress at the time. And that was that.

More should have been done then, but at least they moved a lot of weapons up a few classes. the political will is often short lived.

Jason mentioned the bren, the 7.62mm chambered ones were still in service with the territorials in the late 80's to early 90's it was kind of odd really thr M16 and the slrs bother were at the same time plus they still had the 22 version of the LE for target shooting and parade Atc etc here at least.
No idea when or if they were taken out of service or just put into storage or just destroyed i doubt they were sold off like the SLR's were?

I found this 1600 Maxims were likely brought back to NZ after ww1 and about 100 remain
https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-dai...hanged-warfare