The firearm thread

[jasonu]

Here's a big fucking problem.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12217785

It will mostly be only law abiding gun (soon to be former) owners that will hand in their weapons.
Most of the people that already have illegal weapons will still have them but don't worry because they only use guns in gang crime...

[husaberg]

Here's a big fucking problem.


It will mostly be only law abiding gun (soon to be former) owners that will hand in their weapons.
Most of the people that already have illegal weapons will still have them but don't worry because they only use guns in gang crime...

Judging by the rate US citizens shoot each other compared to NZ its the USA that has the "big f-ing problem."

look at the country you are living in the USA compared to canada, are the gangs ruling canadas streets?
All that is changed in NZ is a category of gun licence required to have certain firearms,, there is nothing to stop the gun owner getting the separate endorsement of the MSSA.
Note the firearm homicide rate in the USA is 50 times higher per 100,0000 people than NZ's one. Plus NZs rate has dropped significantly about 75% since the initial rambo style guns laws were introduced in the 1990's after Aromoana.
Yet Americas has increased each year. Why is Americans 6 times more likely to die in a firearm homicide than a Canadian?

[jasonu]

Judging by the rate US citizens shoot each other compared to NZ its the USA that has the "big f-ing problem."

look at the country you are living in the USA compared to canada, are the gangs ruling canadas streets?
All that is changed in NZ is a category of gun licence required to have certain firearms,, there is nothing to stop the gun ower getter the seperate endorsement of the MSSA.
Note the firearm homicide rate in the USA is 50 times higher per 100,0000 people than NZ's one. Plus NZs rate has dropped significantly about 75% since the initial rambo style guns laws were introduced in the 1990's after Aromoana.
Yet Americas has increased each year. Why is Americans 6 times more likely to die in a firearm homicide than a Canadian?

So it looks like you are fine with a bunch of coons running around with guns because 'they only use them in gang violence'.

[husaberg]

So it looks like you are fine with a bunch of coons running around with guns because 'they only use them in gang violence'.

Criminals will have illegal guns, they are criminals, they do illegal stuff.
Once the laws are made tough enough, the deterrent of years in prison will prevent it being a major issue
Its not the NZ gangs doing the mass shooting, it its people that have previously obtained legal weapon through legal means.

How come you ignored the other stuff.
Judging by the rate US citizens shoot each other compared to NZ its the USA that has the "big f-ing problem."

Look at the country you are living in the USA compared to canada, are the gangs ruling Canadian streets?
All that is changed in NZ is a category of gun licence required to have certain firearms,, there is nothing to stop the gun owner getting the separate endorsement of the MSSA.
Note the firearm homicide rate in the USA is 50 times higher per 100,0000 people than NZ's one. Plus NZs rate has dropped significantly about 75% since the initial rambo style guns laws were introduced in the 1990's after Aromoana.
Yet Americas has increased each year. Why is Americans 6 times more likely to die in a firearm homicide than a Canadian?

[Laava]

Here's a big fucking problem.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12217785

It will mostly be only law abiding gun (soon to be former) owners that will hand in their weapons.
Most of the people that already have illegal weapons will still have them but don't worry because they only use guns in gang crime...

Are you just posting here for the trolling, Mr State the obvious?

[OddDuck]

So it looks like you are fine with a bunch of coons running around with guns because 'they only use them in gang violence'.

JasonU, that sort of shit is exactly where Christchurch came from.

Look at your language. For fucks sake man. THINK.

[TheDemonLord]

http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/gove...est/whole.html

Suppressors - Gone.
Calibres/Ammunition - Gone.
Sport Shooting - Gone.
Optics/Sights - Gone.

To all those who laughed and said 'Oh, this won't affect me', May I suggest you work on your submissions?

They want to Ban 'Military Calibres' - so .308, .223, 7.62, 5.56, .338, .303, .30-06, .30-30 - Gone.

What will the law abiding Kiwi Firearm owners be left with?

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=TheDemonLord;1131129146

What will the law abiding Kiwi Firearm owners be left with?[/QUOTE]

Slug guns and rude language unless you are in a gang.

[husaberg]

Slug guns and rude language unless you are in a gang.

Thats total crap nothing of what he said (and i did look) is actually true, Not a word of it is true. Not a word of his ravings is contained it the draft bill.

He makes claims yet produces zero evidence to back up what he says.
Example
MSSA or semi autos are not banned they are only illegal to be owned or purchased by someone with an A class licence.

What about licensed owners who have a professional reason for having a semi-automatic or another prohibited firearm?
There will be exemptions for specially licensed dealers, bona fide collectors, museum curators and firearms used during dramatic productions, as there are now. They must take steps to disable the weapon and follow other guidelines around security and safety.
Authorised pest controllers governed by s.100 of the Biosecurity Act may be permitted by Police to own a semi-automatic

Nowhere is the draft amendments is any certain caibre of ammunition banned.
Unless they are Semi Autos that fit restricted weapons.

a 223 bolt action is legal A 303 bolt action is legal as is 1 7mm bolt action as it a 308 bolt action.
Converting a AR10 or AR15 to bolt action is not legal or sound.

Prohibited ammunition will include certain types of military ammunition as defined by the Governor General through Order in Council. Examples could include armour piercing ammunition

or prohibited parts

Prohibited parts include any component of a prohibited firearm, or any component that can enable a firearm to be used as a semi-automatic or fully automatic weapon. Examples could include bump stocks, free-standing pistol grips and silencers.

Sport shooting is not banned
nor are scopes, only parts solely for the use in prohibited weapons are restricted.
the only surprise was the additional Semi autos included. no great loss people hunted without them hunting meant to be a sport not the means to slaughter all and sundry or make up for being a pis poor shot.

[TheDemonLord]

Thats total crap nothing of what he said (and i did look) is actually true, Not a word of it is true. Not a word of his ravings is contained it the draft bill.

It's interesting, that for someone who claims to have read it, he just says it's not true, doesn't actually provide any rebuttal. The response is more like a child sticking their fingers in their ears and saying 'I can't hear you'.

The problem is that the Wording is so Vague - The Part with 'Silencers' (Lawl!) does it mean a fully integral suppressed system (as some on Reddit seem to interpret as) is simply a Suppressor that can be fitted to a Semi-Auto (which is to mean ANY Suppressor).

Sport Shooting - Can the Illustrious Husaberg find an Exemption listed for Sport Shooting for owning a Semi-Auto? No? Well that means IPSC is now illegal.

They are looking to ban Military Calibres - which just so happen to be the most popular hunting rounds in New Zealand. All of the Calibres I listed are 'Military Calibres' in current service.

Optics - again, the wording is terrible - they may simply mean something like an AR-Style integrated Gasblock/Front sight, however, the way it is worded it could mean ANY Optic capable of being fitted to a Semi-Auto - which is Any Optic on the market.

The Airsoft guys have just had their sport pretty much shat on too.

[jafagsx250]

http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/gove...est/whole.html

Suppressors - Gone.
Calibres/Ammunition - Gone.
Sport Shooting - Gone.
Optics/Sights - Gone.

To all those who laughed and said 'Oh, this won't affect me', May I suggest you work on your submissions?

They want to Ban 'Military Calibres' - so .308, .223, 7.62, 5.56, .338, .303, .30-06, .30-30 - Gone.

What will the law abiding Kiwi Firearm owners be left with?

The buy back will be in the billions. And will be a failure.

[husaberg]

The buy back will be in the billions. And will be a failure.

Really how do you figure that it will be billions they decide the price? ts a buyers market.
Anyway what value do you put on a human life compared to having a semi auto rifle you don't even need you just want to have to play bang bang with?
Whats that times value fifty?
Maybe you should write fifty letters to the victims families of the Chch massacre and tell them that gun control in NZ was just fine up until now and how pissed off you are about it changing.

[jafagsx250]

Really how do you figure that it will be billions they decide the price? ts a buyers market.
Anyway what value do you put on a human life compared to having a semi auto rifle you don't even need you just want to have to play bang bang with?
Whats that times value fifty?
Maybe you should write fifty letters to the victims families of the Chch massacre and tell them that gun control in NZ was just fine up until now and how pissed off you are about it changing.

If they are lying when they said that they would pay market rates prior to the ban then yes it is in the billions. And you can't buy back what you never owned.

I don't want to answer that emotionally charged question.

They're not in the right space for facts to be of use.

[TheDemonLord]

It took you all day to do that Edit?

Thats total crap nothing of what he said (and i did look) is actually true, Not a word of it is true. Not a word of his ravings is contained it the draft bill.

He makes claims yet produces zero evidence to back up what he says.
Example
MSSA or semi autos are not banned they are only illegal to be owned or purchased by someone with an A class licence.

That's not what I said -

Suppressors - Gone.
Calibres/Ammunition - Gone.
Sport Shooting - Gone.
Optics/Sights - Gone.

Now, seeing as you so kindly quoted the Legislation - "specially licensed dealers, bona fide collectors, museum curators and firearms used during dramatic productions, as there are now." - Can you point to where it states, in that sentance that Sport Shooting (Service Rifle, IPSC, etc.) is a reason for an Exemption?

You can't? Well, My Statement 'Sport Shooting - Gone.' is 100% correct then.

Next up:

Nowhere is the draft amendments is any certain caibre of ammunition banned.
Unless they are Semi Autos that fit restricted weapons.

"Military Ammunition" - That's a rather Nebulus term, some are interpreting it as Tracer or AP or API ammunition, but it's not defined in the Legislation - It's states that any "Military Ammunition" that is defined by the Order of Council. Which could include the Calibres I listed - as they are "Military Ammunition"

a 223 bolt action is legal A 303 bolt action is legal as is 1 7mm bolt action as it a 308 bolt action.
Converting a AR10 or AR15 to bolt action is not legal or sound.

They all fire "Military Ammunition".

or prohibited parts

That part is Laughable - An Example of something that could turn a Firearm into a Semi or fully automatic Firearm including a Silencer.

On what planet does a Silencer turn a Firearm into a Semi or Fully Automatic Firearm?

Sport shooting is not banned

The exemptions that allow for Cat-E ownership for the purpose of Sport Shooting have been revoked. Without this, the sport is, by proxy, Banned.

nor are scopes, only parts solely for the use in prohibited weapons are restricted.

Read it again:

in relation to a pistol or a restricted weapon, includes any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine, silencer, or sight, that, although not essential for the discharge by a pistol or a restricted weapon of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed, or intended to be, an integral part of the pistol or restricted weapon; and

A Sight is an Integral part of Any Firearm.
Any Sight can be fitted to Any restricted or Prohibited Firearm.
Therefore, ANY SIGHT IS NOW A PROHIBITED ITEM.

As for the Silencer - no Suppressor is an Integral part of a Firearm (unless you are including integrally suppressed BARRELS) - so why is it included? Well, that's the problem - since a Suppressor that fits onto a Semi-Auto ALSO fits onto a Bolt-action rifle - Guess what? It's now a Prohibited item

the only surprise was the additional Semi autos included. no great loss people hunted without them hunting meant to be a sport not the means to slaughter all and sundry or make up for being a pis poor shot.

No Great Loss? Apart from the Business this will ruin, Individuals that are Criminalised - I had a chat with my CEO today, he's got an Air-Rifle - his scope fits on my AR - guess what? He's now a Criminal according to this piss-poor legislation.

But worst of all - Not a single thing mentioned as to the application process that would have prevented this Terrorist attack if they were followed.

Online Referees are still okay.
Trans-Tasman Background checks still non-existent.
No Changes for the reporting to the Police that someone may no longer be a 'Fit and Proper person'
No Mental Health Checks required for Licencees.

[TheDemonLord]

Really how do you figure that it will be billions they decide the price? ts a buyers market.

Give me your house.
I'll pay you $5 for it.
If you don't sell it to me for $5, I'll come round with Firearms, haul you off to prison at Gunpoint, then take your house (for free) anyway.

Sounds good?
No?

Anyway what value do you put on a human life compared to having a semi auto rifle you don't even need you just want to have to play bang bang with?

So, you'll be advocating to Ban Swimming, Smoking, Alcohol, Cars, Trucks, DIY - As these all kill more people Annually than Semi-Autos ever have, even if we had a Terrorist attack ever year.

Maybe you should write fifty letters to the victims families of the Chch massacre and tell them that gun control in NZ was just fine up until now and how pissed off you are about it changing.

No one is saying it was fine - See the comments about Police Procedural issues, All the Firearm owners I've spoken to have also agreed that the loophole that allowed large capacity magazines to be purchased on an A-Cat licence was also a problem.

So how about you Fuck Off with your lies and misinformation eh?