The firearm thread

[husaberg]

A good quote today "The only thing being handed in, is democracy".

You might want to point out where the NZ bill of rights says everyone must have the right to have semiauto weapons and access to large mags on a A class licence.
Even the US constitution which spells it out gun ownership as being a right doesn't specify it has to be is a particular kind of Automatic or semi auto.
The world never ended after Legislation was passed in 1992 amended the 1983 Arms Act, placing restrictions on the sale of military-style semiautomatic (MSSA) rifles and introducing 10-year limits for firearm licenses.

[austingtir]

You might want to point out where the NZ bill of rights says everyone must have the right to have semiauto weapons and access to large mags on a A class licence.
Even the US constitution which spells it out gun ownership as being a right doesn't specify it has to be is a particular kind of Automatic or semi auto.
The world never ended after Legislation was passed in 1992 amended the 1983 Arms Act, placing restrictions on the sale of military-style semiautomatic (MSSA) rifles and introducing 10-year limits for firearm licenses.

You talk so much rubbish I think I might even go join a gun club.

[husaberg]

You talk so much rubbish I think I might even go join a gun club.

I would encourage you to spend as much time as possible being around any areas were firearms are discharged as often as possible.
I wouldnt limit yourself to just gun clubs though try the artillery Waiouru range at and any of the worlds war zones.

[TheDemonLord]

You might want to point out where the NZ bill of rights says everyone must have the right to have semiauto weapons and access to large mags on a A class licence.

Stop Lying.

No One, here or otherwise has EVER said that this was right or even A right.

No One, here or otherwise has argued for this position.

In fact, many people (before the god-awful law change) suggested that the right approach would be to re-classify high-capacity Magazines that could be fitted to any Semi-Auto as requiring an E-Cat license to purchase.

[Katman]

Stop Lying.

No One, here or otherwise has EVER said that this was right or even A right.

No One, here or otherwise has argued for this position.

I thought you'd be used to him by now.

[Swoop]

You might want to point out where the NZ bill of rights says everyone must have the right to...

A robust democratic law-making process.
Not this shambles.

[husaberg]

A robust democratic law-making process.
Not this shambles.

so all the NZ voters (that bothered to vote in NZ) elect 120 MP's from multiple parties, Then 119 out of 120 of those same elected MPs, vote for a law that, 80% of kiwis totally support, you then claim that's not democratic............

[husaberg]

I thought you'd be used to him by now.

the only thing you have contributed to this thread is further proof you are petty narcissistic troll.
None of your posts have even been about the subject.

[scumdog]

A robust democratic law-making process.
Not this shambles.

It surely is, the wheels are getting wobbly I noticed, the whole thing has cracks but the Government is moving goal posts to compensate.

[scumdog]

You might want to point out where the NZ bill of rights says everyone must have the right to have semiauto weapons and access to large mags on a A class licence.
.
The world never ended after Legislation was passed in 1992 amended the 1983 Arms Act, placing restrictions on the sale of military-style semiautomatic (MSSA) rifles and introducing 10-year limits for firearm licenses.

I bet you can't find where anybody made a claim as per your first sentence?

And had the Arms Act update been done PROPERLY (instead of yet another knee-jerk reaction) and the vetting process done PROPERLY the Christchurch massacre would have been unlikely to occur.

Now the Government is scared that somebody will repeat the massacre using a fixed magazine four shot rifle....

[husaberg]

I bet you can't find where anybody made a claim as per your first sentence?

And had the Arms Act update been done PROPERLY (instead of yet another knee-jerk reaction) and the vetting process done PROPERLY the Christchurch massacre would have been unlikely to occur.

Now the Government is scared that somebody will repeat the massacre using a fixed magazine four shot rifle....

I don't need to, it was in reply to the claim that democracy was being stolen, when it simply was not, As NZ has no democratic right to own or use a semi auto, The process of making them probhited was entirely democratic, and it was overwhelmingly supported by the majority of Kiwis.
If you are going to get all precious about my statement ,how about you provide some evidence for your claim in your last sentence.
AS for the vetting and arms update how come so many on this thread have claimed the gun laws will have no effect at all on reducing the incidence of mass slaughter with what basically were assault weapons.
the gun lobby was saying our laws were the best in the world prior to this event.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't need to, it was in reply to the claim that democracy was being stolen, when it simply was not, As NZ has no democratic right to own or use a semi auto, The process of making them probhited was entirely democratic, and it was overwhelmingly supported by the majority of Kiwis.
If you are going to get all precious about my statement ,how about you provide some evidence for your claim in your last sentence.
AS for the vetting and arms update how come so many on this thread have claimed the gun laws will have no effect at all on reducing the incidence of mass slaughter with what basically were assault weapons.
the gun lobby was saying our laws were the best in the world prior to this event.

The laws were mostly fine, the application of the Laws were not.

Again, a Character reference from an Internet Forum. I'd not vouch for ANYONE on this forum that I had not (in the very least) met face-to-face.

What if I told you, that I recently moved house?

And what if I told you that when I submitted my address change to the Police, instead of coming round and inspecting the Security at my new premises (like they are meant to) they just sent me an email, which (and I'm paraphrasing here) was this:

Police: "Please tell us you aren't breaking the law"
Me: "I'm not breaking the Law"
Police: "WELL THAT'S GOOD THEN, NOTHING MORE TO SEE/DO HERE, LETS UPDATE OUR RECORDS"

Now, I should add - that despite Husa's attempts, I'm not breaking the law, the Safe is bolted to the Stud of the house inside a secured room. The problem is, the Police have only my word for that - they are not doing their job properly (just like with the Chch shooter) and they are not using the existing law to action the appropriate checks and balances.

This is after the Chch shooting where one would think the Police would be rather keen to do everything by the book.


As for the last point - Did Mass shooting/Acts of Terrorism stop in the UK after 1987? what about after 1996? If the answer is 'No' - then there's your proof that the laws won't make any difference. In fact, the vindictive, undemocratic and divisive nature of the laws will probably give rise to the next domestic terrorist.

[pritch]

The Guardian newspaper recently published a podcast discussing antique firearms and "ghost" ammunition. Seemingly gangs in Britain are using antique guns and non-commercially loaded ammunition to get around firearms restrictions. The British definition of "antique" seems quite relaxed as the article mentioned WW2 era pistols. Ammunition for the majority of those is still available and widely used.

The paper engaged the services of an expert to assist with the podcast. It seems though that the main asset he brought to the interview was an American accent. Actual expertise was in short supply.

To learn about "ghost bullets", a colourful journalistic phrase, detectives visited a known local reloader who sometimes onsells to dealers. They showed him a variety of ammunition and he advised them as to what it was and how it would have been created. At one point he examined a round and identified it as one that he had loaded. Nothing was said, the discussion continued and eventually the detectives left.

Later they returned with a warrant for his arrest. He was tried and sentenced to twenty years jail. He appealed but the appeal failed.

The reloader didn't even try and conceal the fact that he had created the round, he was quite open about it as he was entitled to be. He did not sell ammunition to any gang member, he supplied it to a dealer who onsold it. I can't help but feel that, on the evidence presented in the podcast, a major injustice has been done.

The British justice system is on a parlous state currently following years of massive budget cuts and restrictions to legal aid etc. Reading general warnings about the failure of the sytem is one thing. An apparent travesty such as this is another entirely.


https://www.theguardian.com/news/aud...ullets-podcast

[Swoop]

so all the NZ voters (that bothered to vote in NZ) elect 120 MP's from multiple parties, Then 119 out of 120 of those same elected MPs, vote for a law that, 80% of kiwis totally support, you then claim that's not democratic............

My MP is meant to represent my opinion in Parliament, not to make up whatever he/she "feels" is their opinion on any random day. Democracy has died in NZ. RIP democracy.

[husaberg]

My MP is meant to represent my opinion in Parliament, not to make up whatever he/she "feels" is their opinion on any random day. Democracy has died in NZ. RIP democracy.

Forgive me thats' a child like response, An MP is meant to represent the majority of those that voted for them, your views are the minority, don't let a narrow echo chamber view you get in this thread or a firearms forum fool you into thinking your view is the majority because its clearly not. 80% of kiwis think what has been done is a good idea or even conversely doesn't go far enough.
Accept it, deal with it and move on.
Those that don't comply are clearly not the people we want having firearms so they will be treated as such.