The firearm thread

[F5 Dave]

Ever stop to think how many of those people not in uniform would be breaching policy to openly show they are carrying guns? So they aren't.

Ever think about anything you post?

[sugilite:Me]

TDL, in answer to your question, if i were to find myself in a scenario where say an active shooter was near me. I would much rather have a trained professional with a family history of law enforcement take care of it than the unknown skills of some egotistical dude strutting around like a turkey.

And yeah, im not advocating throwing out the system. Rather as you allude too, some meaningful checks and balances would not go astray.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL, in answer to your question, if i were to find myself in a scenario where say an active shooter was near me. I would much rather have a trained professional with a family history of law enforcement take care of it than the unknown skills of some egotistical dude strutting around like a turkey.

That's a fair comment, but without wanting to be Glib - having seen and read the standards for Law Enforcement marksmanship, I'm not so sure I'd agree there...

[pritch]

Words from a stupid old dickhead.

And merry Christmas to you.

[jasonu]

Gun grab working well...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hundre...JHVWEBQJOEWH4/

[husaberg]

Gun grab working well...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hundre...JHVWEBQJOEWH4/

6 firearm related deaths recorded by Auckland dhb in last two years
These figures include accidental and self harm. Did you even read it before you posted it?
Odd that you would quote the herald any given what you have posted about it previously.

Fuckwit. You know nothing more than the NZ Herald feeds you.

It is if you get all your dirt from the Herald.

Is that your opinion from personal experience or did you read it in the Herald?

Put the Herald down mate.

Out of interest, how many mass shootings per week in the USA would it take for you to think, gee maybe some gun control is needed in the usa?
Like restrictions of mental capacity or mental illness or on numbers or waiting periods.
here is milwaukee a similar size city as Auckland with similar demograpics
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/c...16c4db78b.html
Yet they very different murder rates with firearms

[Swoop]

That's a fair comment, but without wanting to be Glib - having seen and read the standards for Law Enforcement marksmanship, I'm not so sure I'd agree there...

I have to agree totally.
Marksmanship is a perishable skill that requires contant honing and practice to retain.
The costs of ammunition alone, just for practice, would be enormous for every plod to remain "capable" to carry a loaded firearm, then onto that there would be the costs of purchasing the firearms.
It would most certainly lead to far more "issued" firearms going missing.
The gangs would love it.

[husaberg]

I have to agree totally.
Marksmanship is a perishable skill that requires contant honing and practice to retain.
The costs of ammunition alone, just for practice, would be enormous for every plod to remain "capable" to carry a loaded firearm, then onto that there would be the costs of purchasing the firearms.
.

heers, all of which you have just stated makes a total lie of "the good guy with a gun argument" the NRA and its other peddlers push, so thanks.

[TheDemonLord]

heers, all of which you have just stated makes a total lie of "the good guy with a gun argument" the NRA and its other peddlers push, so thanks.

Not at all.

What it shows is:

Good, UNTRAINED guy with a Gun is much less effective than Good, TRAINED guy with a Gun.

And trained means regular shooting. I've been enjoying listening to Massad Ayoob recently, one Stat he cites is that the untrained CCW holder is successful about 70% of the time in a scenario where Lethall Force is used.

Whereas (and admittedly this is cherry picked) - one training organization that he isn't affiliated with has a 100% record - that is ever CCW holder that attended that course, that went on to draw their Firearm to stop a threat, lived.

[pritch]

Marksmanship is a perishable skill that requires contant honing and practice to retain.

There's more than marksmanship involved. The problem is that the people who train the police don't always know the basics. There have been, and are likely still, people in the force with the knowledge but they aren't always asked.

[Kickaha]

There's more than marksmanship involved. The problem is that the people who train the police don't always know the basics. There have been, and are likely still, people in the force with the knowledge but they aren't always asked.

A friend of mine who is a competition pistol shooter does some training for the police, he doesn't have a very high opinion of their ability but said they basically don't get or do enough range time

[F5 Dave]

As long as you can spray enough bullets out you're bound to hit something. It's a bit like vaccine roll out, they need to get caps in ass's.

[TheDemonLord]

As long as you can spray enough bullets out you're bound to hit something. It's a bit like vaccine roll out, they need to get caps in ass's.

I know this is tongue in cheek - but going back to the Massad Ayoob lectures (highly recommended if you are interested in this sort of thing) he calls this sort of thing out with great zeal.

[TheDemonLord]

There's more than marksmanship involved. The problem is that the people who train the police don't always know the basics. There have been, and are likely still, people in the force with the knowledge but they aren't always asked.

Sadly true in many organizations.

There are incompetent or even dangerous people that have Managements' Ear and favor.

[TheDemonLord]

A friend of mine who is a competition pistol shooter does some training for the police, he doesn't have a very high opinion of their ability but said they basically don't get or do enough range time

Yep, I've heard this same thing from multiple people and multiple sources. Something like 200 rounds a year for training for the NZ Police, whereas any competition shooter would likely be doing more than that every weekend.