The firearm thread

[TheDemonLord]

Less gang members to worry about?

Normally, that's the sort of response that gets me lambasted...

And to be fair - if it was just Gang Members killing each other, I'd probably not be too concerned, my prediction is though it won't be a Gang Member that gets killed.

[pete376403]

Okay then - serious question:

Suppose that one of these Gang attacks is successful - and enough people are shot/killed to constitute a 'Mass Shooting'

Then what?.

Hopefully they would be declared a terrorist organisation and appropriate measures would be taken. Not likely though,

[TheDemonLord]

Hopefully they would be declared a terrorist organisation and appropriate measures would be taken. Not likely though,

Spicy!

I want to disagree on the point that organized crime isn't Terrorism... But I also don't want to..

[pete376403]

Spicy!

I want to disagree on the point that organized crime isn't Terrorism... But I also don't want to..

Given that they haven't hit anyone yet I'd suggest it's more like disorganised crime

[sugilite:Me]

He has a very good point.

[TheDemonLord]

He has a very good point.

So, I completely agree on the Mental Health aspect.

TV and Movies - are we really doing this, again? First it was Jazz corrupting our kids, then Rock n Roll, then Horror Movies, then Heavy Metal, then computer games, then....

I would say the infamy that is heaped on Mass Shooters is a factor for someone who seeks notoriety - but Mental Health seems to be a far greater factor.

[husaberg]

Given that they haven't hit anyone yet I'd suggest it's more like disorganised crime

They also tend to use .22.

Operation Tauwhiro in February last year - as of mid-December 2021, 1,369 firearms had been seized and 1,161 arrests made.
The data does indicate a gradual trend upwards in firearms related offences since 2013....
new legislation that, if passed, would allow Firearms Protections Orders to be made that could prohibit serious criminals from having and using guns
It would also set up a gun registry.
"We wanted to make sure we target the most serious offenders."
National police spokesperson Mark Mitchell said his party had been calling for this for some time.

Note the 501 law
501 deporting thousands of seriously hardened and irredeemable criminals since the law was introduced in late 2014. In fact, many people are being deported for low level (but repeated) drug crime and driving offences. The 501 policy applies primarily to non-citizens who have spent at least 12 months in prison.

[TheDemonLord]

Tangentially related - note the proposed solution, it's not the lazy solution (let's take the guns!) it actually addresses the root of the problem - why do people want to do this in the first place.

That's the hard question, but it's also one that has the higher likelihood of success.

[R650R]

Might have been in another thread but the mini dialogue about training.... relates well to the ending in this doco. First 3/4 is intriguing investigation but last part covers how lack of training and firepower at time cost FBI dearly. Although the ultimate course of tragedy was how long a paper based world took to furnish a copy of suspects licence photo....
I’m sure the relevant people monitors this thread due to its subject. Be good to show to Aunty and Co why this govt needs to stop pussyfooting about when it comes to giving cops tools.

[F5 Dave]

TDL should move to Amerca immediately to be the good guy with a gun.

Try a shopping mall. Don't forget to profile Muslims, gays and wimmin.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL should move to Amerca immediately to be the good guy with a gun.

Try a shopping mall. Don't forget to profile Muslims, gays and wimmin.

I've definitely thought about the first part...

[sugilite:Me]

No follow through

Plenty of "good guys" with a gun will have grandiose ideas they can be a hero. When shit gets real, I would say most would be right there along with those Uvalde cops trembling behind barriers while shitting their pants.

[TheDemonLord]

No follow through

If I were single and without Family, probably would have attempted in 2019, and more likely successful in 2021.

I've floated the idea though...

Plenty of "good guys" with a gun will have grandiose ideas they can be a hero. When shit gets real, I would say most would be right there along with those Uvalde cops trembling behind barriers while shitting their pants.

I've run across a Motorway to help a Drunk driver who just nose-dived his car into a Barrier.
I've reached into a pickup, to kill the ignition, that had taken out a Power pole and was possibly live.

I genuinely don't know how I'd respond in a gun fight - I suspect the answer would be effort 4/5, Attainment 2/5.

[pritch]

Might have been in another thread but the mini dialogue about training....

Interesting but to an extent FBI propaganda. A lot has been written about the Miami FBI murders, it's over twenty years since I read it but it changed my behaviour when at the range alone.

It's actually demonstrated in this clip, but the guy with the shotgun did not know how to operate a pump action shotgun with one hand. A gap in training, whether his or generally, I don't know. At that time back up weapons were going out of style, but he had one, and as shown it was his back up pistol that finally won the day.

The reference at the end to more powerful weapons is interesting. A lot of rounds were fired by the FBI agents for only a small percentage of hits. A 9mm bullet had come to rest against the heart of one of the crims without penetrating. Instead of working on lifting their hit rate, the FBI decided the answer was more powerful guns.

They opted for 10mm. At the test to choose the ammunition they had a number of factory 10mm rounds and one home load. They chose the home load.
Not long after the introdcution of the new 10mm Glocks the guns started breaking. The newly adopted special FBI 10mm round was too hot.

There is a movie too, "In The Line Of Duty."

[R650R]

Interesting but to an extent FBI propaganda. A lot has been written about the Miami FBI murders, it's over twenty years since I read it but it changed my behaviour when at the range alone.

It's actually demonstrated in this clip, but the guy with the shotgun did not know how to operate a pump action shotgun with one hand. A gap in training, whether his or generally, I don't know. At that time back up weapons were going out of style, but he had one, and as shown it was his back up pistol that finally won the day.

The reference at the end to more powerful weapons is interesting. A lot of rounds were fired by the FBI agents for only a small percentage of hits. A 9mm bullet had come to rest against the heart of one of the crims without penetrating. Instead of working on lifting their hit rate, the FBI decided the answer was more powerful guns.

They opted for 10mm. At the test to choose the ammunition they had a number of factory 10mm rounds and one home load. They chose the home load.
Not long after the introdcution of the new 10mm Glocks the guns started breaking. The newly adopted special FBI 10mm round was too hot.

There is a movie too, "In The Line Of Duty."

Yeah I wondered too with at least five agents why didn’t at least onrctry to stay calm and just make shots that count. Mind you since Vietnam USA tactic has been spray and pray.