Shotgun (single, double, pump, lever, bolt)
Shotgun Auto (non MSSA)
Rifle (single, double, pump, lever, bolt)
Rifle Auto (non MSSA)
MSSA
Pistol
Black powder (rifle, pistol, shotgun)
Air/Gas (pistol, rifle)
un-armed
Geriatric hoon
I'll see your Indiana mall and raise you an Uvalde where some 400 good guys with guns did nowt for over an hour. Although nobody much thinks they are good guys now.Originally Posted by TheDemonLord
Oh, and the last good guy with a gun who took out the bad guy that I read about, was killed by the police when they arrived on the scene.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Welcome Back Pritch.
See my comment about Uvalde - Off Duty BPD with Private Firearm - AKA Good Guy, With Gun.
I'm not sure you can call the Uvalde Police Officers 'Good Guys' - by any stretch of the Imagination. Before or After.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
In the riders seat
A myth perpetuated by the NRA and it's sycophantic followers
More are stopped by unarmed civilians than good guys with guns
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
The Majestic Metal Wizard
And more are 'stopped' by the Killer themselves....
The low incidence of people concealed carrying and the location where these often occur ('Gun free zones') means it's statistically unlikely that when a Mass Shooter starts a rampage, there will be an Armed citizen in the vicinity to return fire.
Also skewing the stats are the fact that there are instances where because it was stopped it did not meet the threshold to be considered a 'Mass Shooting'
But as I said above - when you factor in the Police (who, in most cases, are good guys with guns) combined with armed private citizens, Good Guys with Guns represent the majority of how a Mass Shooter is stopped.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kiwibiker
What percentage of shootings have been resolved with a good guy with a gun? Sweet fuck all would be my guess. Duh
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Yes, it's an incredibly rare event for starters, most of them using a Shotgun and .22 and also some of your info isn't correct:
Chch shooter had multiple complaints about him to the NZ Police by shooting club members (3), also didn't meet Licence requirements.
The Bain case is a large unknown.
Brian Schlaepfer had issues with Mental Illness.
David Gray was not a Good Guy:
Which is a crime, and grounds for having a licence revoked.In January 1990, he threatened an assistant of the bookshop with what appeared to be a shotgun in a cardboard box, and Brosnan served him with a trespass notice in February.
Stanley Graham was also not a good guy:
Threatening and abuse is a crime, which is grounds for having a licence revoked.His behaviour took a turn for the worse, and he began threatening and abusing passing neighbours.
So out of the 7 incidents, 4 of them had sufficient evidence BEFORE the crimes they committed to revoke their licences. A 5th potentially and there's no information about Noema Rika (doesn't even have a Wikipedia page).
Yes, I am seeing a pattern: Poor management of Firearms Licensing by the NZ Police by not revoking licenses of individuals who commit crimes or otherwise no longer meet the Fit and Proper person test is a factor in the deadliest of NZ Mass Shootings.
I'm also seeing the pattern that the information you provided is biased and incorrect.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
If we include Police (who are good guys with guns) it's 27%. If we exclude police, it's about 6%What percentage of shootings have been resolved with a good guy with a gun? Sweet fuck all would be my guess. Duh
However, as pointed out, only about 1% of people in the US Concealed Carry and the majority of Mass Shooters specifically target area where they are unlikely to meet armed resistance (such as Schools and 'Gun Free Zones'). Thus making the combination of a Mass Shooter attempting a Mass Shooting and there being someone who is Concealed Carrying a statistically unlikely combination.
If we were to re-run the stats, but excluding those where there wasn't an Armed Citizen present, I suspect that we would see the Percentage stopped climb significantly.
My point was not to say 'The Majority' are stopped in this way, but to show that a single individual with a 15 second response time was a more effective way to stop a Mass Shooter than an entire Police Department with an hour response time. Also that such a rapid response by an Armed individual saved a lot of lives.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kiwibiker
All those dead kids are definitely worth the 6%. Keep the good guy bullshit going.
In the riders seat
No, no they don't, they target areas where the people they want to kill are regardless of that areas status
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
I wonder how the tenure of the NRA policies would last, if next event they were the victims. And I'm not suggesting they should be, or anyone should be, but we'd see some decent hypocrisy I'm sure.
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
Anorak
Correct most of the schools had armed security.
In fact there were two armed law enforcement agents present at Columbine High School during the assault by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold that left 15 dead and many more wounded. They twice engaged and fired at Eric Harris in an effort to stop the shooting, but were unsuccessful because they were outgunned by the assault weapons wielded by the two teens.[Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Neil] Gardner [the school's community resource officer], seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman.
Jefferson County Deputy Paul Smoke
Harris, leaning out of a broken window on the set of double doors into the school, begins shooting a rifle. [Jefferson County Deputy Paul] Smoker fires three rounds at him and the gunman disappears from the window.
https://www.usnews.com/debate-club/s...stop-columbineAfter the shooting at Columbine High School in 1999, Congress began providing federal dollars for campus officers, and officials made — and remade — security protocols inside schools, from lockdown training drills to elaborate identification requirements. Nationally, 19 percent of elementary school students, 45 percent of middle schoolers and 67 percent of high school students attend a school with a campus police officer, according to a 2018 report from the Urban Institute.n officer on duty at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., in 2018 has been accused of hiding as a teenage gunman killed 17 people.
The armed deputy who was on campus at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school when a gunman massacred 17 people stood outside the building as it occurred and did not go in to engage the shooter, the Broward County sheriff, Scott Israel, said on Thursday.Robb Elementary had security. It didn’t stop a massacre.
Texas officials are revisiting efforts to bolster mental health services and harden school security as families grieve the tragic attack at Robb Elementary School.948 school shootings since Sandy Hook prove swift policy changes and more guns don't work
a 2020 review of gun policy research found no evidence that the presence of more guns had any effect on gun violence. In fact, unarmed staff or the shooters themselves are more likely to end a school shooting than someone with a gun.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
The Majestic Metal Wizard
I've heard this refrain often - for example Sugi's comments of how quickly the Laws would change if Politicians were the target.
And it's something I've thought about.
Firstly - there is *quite* the history of US Presidents being assassinated or attempted to be assassinated (Reagan, Lincoln, JFK, Clinton and GWB) - and yet, the Constitution holds.
The second problem is one of Mindset: The NRA accepts that Evil People will always find ways to do Evil. Case in point the completely home-made shotgun, with home made Black Powder used to assassinate Shinzo Abe - remembering that Japan has had very very very strict Firearm laws for almost a century - yet didn't stop someone from manufacturing a functioning and lethal Firearm.
Given that Evil exists, the only way to counter it, is to be prepared: Tools, Training, Mindset.
So if someone attacked an NRA convention, firstly they likely would be eliminated extremely quickly and secondly - the NRA mindset would accept that you cannot control others, you can only control yourself.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
That assumes that there is a person they specifically want to kill.
There are some who simply want to make the whole world feel as bad as they think the world makes them feel. For them, they want the maximum body count. You don't see them going up to the local Military Base to shoot it up. No, they go for where there are going to be large numbers of weak and defenceless people so they can inflict the maximum amount of carnage as some form of Revenge on the world.
Their Motivation specifically rules out targetting people capable of fighting back and often they want to target Children as they are 'innocent' and so leave the deepest emotional scars.
So Yes, they often do.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Most? At best you've given 3 examples.
2 of which aren't really applicable due to failures of certain people to do their job.
The Columbine one is more interesting - firstly your info isn't correct, it was a single police officer on duty (Not Armed Security) and secondly - Assault Weapons? Nope. Not that Assault Weapons has a technical definition - but it's commonly used to refer to MSRs (Modern Sporting Rifles) - firing Rifle Calibre ammunition - which neither of them had - 12 Gauge Shotguns and 9 mm Carbines.
The officer returned fire and called for backup but didn't press the attackers, 2 against 1. Once Backup arrived, they surrounded the Library which was when the two shooters committed Suicide.
The ultimate conclusion was still forced by 'Good Guys with Guns'
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
The NRA are good for hypocrisy. If a black guy has a legal problem arising from gun ownership they got nothin'. The 2nd Amendment is "whites only."
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
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