The firearm thread

[Drunken Monkey]

Hunting is all about bullet placement, not projectile energy.

I agree on all your points, hence the qualifier "...more for cool factor than any practical purpose". Unfortunately, at least according to the online catalogue, the Remington 700 is "Available in 7mm-08, .204 and 308.".

Those were the newer models werent they? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole aye.

Actually I have no idea. It is made in the Philippines, if that has anything to do with it. But yeah, I didn't even want it; it was a condition of the buyout when I went from half owner to full owner of the Remington 870. Urgh, there's that word again - maybe I'm turning into some sort of wierd brand-conscious Remington whore...

[scumdog]

To be honest, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a .243 than a .308. Heck, a .243 is just a necked-down .308 in any case. A lighter, faster, flatter-shooting projectile that'll kill any animal you're likely to encounter within 200m so long as you don't hit it in a damn-fool location. What's not to love?

Hell, I've seen animals get up and run faster than I can after taking a bad hit from an expanding 200gr bullet at about 2800fps out of the Mosin Nagant. Nasty shit.



Hunting is all about bullet placement, not projectile energy.

Last comment is true - but disagree re the 243 vs 308 bit.

A 308 with a 180 grain hunting projectile is tops for any bush hunting peiod.
My mate with a 243 ended up trying 105grn loads to get the bush-bashing qualities of my 308, didn't work.

Use the same 308 since 1974 and the only time it felt like it 'lacked' was open-top shooting a thar a long-way away. (350 yards plus)

The rest of the time it was ideal.

[Sniper]

Hunting is all about bullet placement, not projectile energy.

Well said Fish. Its just like target shooting, except on food. As MDU, he shoots the feet off bunnies

Actually I have no idea. It is made in the Philippines, if that has anything to do with it. But yeah, I didn't even want it; it was a condition of the buyout when I went from half owner to full owner of the Remington 870. Urgh, there's that word again - maybe I'm turning into some sort of wierd brand-conscious Remington whore...

Nothing wrong with Remington IMHO. I would like to have a couple more in the safe alongside my 700.

[jrandom]

a 180 grain hunting projectile is tops for any bush hunting peiod.

True that. I've done almost all my hunting to date out in the open. Bring the binocs and you can spot your game from 10km away up a ridge, nice and quick, but then you gotta go for the long, long walk, and you'd better be able to put lead on target at well over 100m or your dinner is just gonna be laughing at you as it scoots away.

A 30-30 lever action would be the bee's knees for bush shooting, I reckon.

[Wolf]

To be honest, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a .243 than a .308. Heck, a .243 is just a necked-down .308 in any case. A lighter, faster, flatter-shooting projectile that'll kill any animal you're likely to encounter within 200m so long as you don't hit it in a damn-fool location. What's not to love?

Hell, I've seen animals get up and run faster than I can after taking a bad hit from an expanding 200gr bullet at about 2800fps out of the Mosin Nagant. Nasty shit.



Hunting is all about bullet placement, not projectile energy.

Got to agree. I love the .243 calibre and I seriously regret selling my .243 Miroku Lever Action, despite getting more for it than I paid for it (amazing what removing the dented varnish, steaming out the dents in the furniture and the liberal application of linseed oil and gun-blue to the appropriate areas can achieve).

It was a fantastically accurate weapon and I loved it.

I hope to get a decent Mauser-actioned .243 at some stage to replace it.

US Motorcycle-and-gun nut, Chuck Hawks, has an essay on his site proposing that the armed forces of the World ditch .223 and .308 in favour of .243 and I quite agree with the arguments he raises.

As Fish says, though, it's bullet placement that counts. A .243 through the chest will stop an animal a damned site faster than pretty much anything through the stomach.

[ManDownUnder]

Ok all - question regading silencers.

This is for sale

I note it's being sold with a silencer which - to my understanding will take a reasonable amount of the "BANG" out of what happens inside the barrel (i.e. the powder burning/pressure wave arriving with a "BANG")

But... the projectile a very supersonic and the bang from that will still echo and roar around the hills.

Can anyone explain what actually happens (i.e. point out what I don't know and fill the gaps?)

[Wolf]

I note it's being sold with a silencer which - to my understanding will take a reasonable amount of the "BANG" out of what happens inside the barrel (i.e. the powder burning/pressure wave arriving with a "BANG")

But... the projectile a very supersonic and the bang from that will still echo and roar around the hills.

Can anyone explain what actually happens (i.e. point out what I don't know and fill the gaps?)

That is why I use sub-sonic .22lr ammo in my Brno. The travel noise (aka sonic "boom") of the projectile passing the intended target is audible and will spook it. It will probably, if sufficient, echo off hills.

You could load your own with less powder to make a subsonic round - at a cost to energy and trajectory.

The term used is "moderator", not silencer - silencers are illegal (or would be if they existed because nothing ever really "silences" a firearm, only moderates the sound to something hopefully unobtrusive.)

I use a moderated ("silenced") .22lr Brno with sub-sonic ammo and get an "apologetic cough" rather than a bang. It's audible, but the game does not associate it with a threat -YET. Nowhere near as loud as the crack of an unmoderated weapon firing supersonic projectiles.

[ManDownUnder]

That is why I use sub-sonic .22lr ammo in my Brno. The travel noise (aka sonic "boom") of the projectile passing the intended target is audible and will spook it. It will probably, if sufficient, echo off hills.

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

[Sniper]

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

The sound of a round leaving the barrel leaves a sonic signature and the prey or intended target can then pinpoint from where the shot came. The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else

Thats my understanding of it

[Wolf]

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

Not a lot of point on a magnum round as you are quite correct, the powder bang - the escaping gases from the muzzle will be slowed/softened by the baffles but the supersonic crack will remain.

I don't know if 17HMR rounds are available in subsonic version (kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?).

The moderator will quieten it down somewhat - it would not be as loud as an unmoderated HMR but it won't be secret-squirrel quiet

[Wolf]

The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else

Hmmm, never heard that. My thought was it was to make the sound less "startling" but I could be wrong.

If it does indeed confuse the prey then I suppose it wouldn't matter if the round itself was making a sonic boom - unless it's passing close by the prey's head like my bloody possum

[Sniper]

Hmmm, never heard that. My thought was it was to make the sound less "startling" but I could be wrong.

If it does indeed confuse the prey then I suppose it wouldn't matter if the round itself was making a sonic boom - unless it's passing close by the prey's head like my bloody possum

I think there are so many different theories behind it and none of them are wrong.

I, for the life of me, cannot understand why people fit moderator to their .308's and .270s when the go hunting. Do you ever see professinal marksman do that? Want a quiet round, .300 whisper...

[Mr Merde]

The sound of a round leaving the barrel leaves a sonic signature and the prey or intended target can then pinpoint from where the shot came. The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else

Thats my understanding of it

This is my understanding of a moderator on a supersonic round, also. It will not muffle the noise as much as subs but it does make it very hard to tell where the shot came from.

There are no sub loadings for the .17hmr as far as I know.

[Wolf]

I, for the life of me, cannot understand why people fit moderator to their .308's and .270s when the go hunting.

Ummm, to quieten it down to the level of a .303?

First time I fired a .308 I thought the world had come to an end. I was sure people could hear it in town.

Only previous time anything sounded that loud was a .30-30 being fired suddenly 3 feet away in the middle of a quiet night in the bush...

[Sniper]

Ummm, to quieten it down to the level of a .303?

First time I fired a .308 I thought the world had come to an end. I was sure people could hear it in town.

Only previous time anything sounded that loud was a .30-30 being fired suddenly 3 feet away in the middle of a quiet night in the bush...

Tis true, they can scare the shit outta ya. Almost as scary as a cold, wet MDU wanting to climb in the car

I can't say Ive been next to a 30-30 but if its anything like a Gimpy going off 5 feet away from your bivvy because the guys think it would be funny, then I can sympathise