The firearm thread

[Indiana_Jones]

"Dear Andrew,

Thanks for contacting us.

Buyers of ammunition are now required to be authenticated and must enter a valid firearms licence number when they bid on ammunition.

Asking a question on a shotgun, rifle or ammunition auction now requires a valid firearms licence number to be entered.

We have implemented these changes to ensure that firearms and ammunition sales comply with current firearm laws.

The license information is held in accordance with our Privacy Policy, our Terms and Conditions and the Privacy Act. Therefore we do not sell or rent your information, and it is only disclosed in the circumstances outlined in our Policy and provided for in the Privacy Act.

If you have further questions regarding this issue please reply and we will answer your email as soon as possible.

Regards,

Mel"

"We have implemented these changes to ensure that firearms and ammunition sales comply with current firearm laws."

Funny I don't recall where it says a advertising medium has to take down my FAL number....

In other news I got my Lee's 50th kit today with a 7.62x54R die.

God have mercy on all of us.

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

We have implemented these changes to ensure that firearms and ammunition sales comply with current firearm laws.

What are you like at chess?

Your move "But I don't need to enter my driver's license when buying a car"
Response "The law doesn't require car buyers to have a license (and possibly 'only those that drive them')"
Your move "Why don't you ask anyway?"
... etc

Feed 'em some rope.

[Mr Merde]

My answer to the reply from Trade Me.

Followed by their second reply to me.

Still the same bullshit

_________________________________________
On 27 Aug 2009 23:17:09 +1200, "Trade Me Support" <support@trademe.co.nz>
wrote:

Mel,

Thank you very much for your prompt reply. I know that to purchase live
ammunition that a Firearms licence is needed.

My question to you is why does buying ammunition components now require a
licence input on your site?

There is no requirement in NZ law to provide a licence when purchasing
these components from any other source, why so non your site?

There is no legal requirement to provide a licence number when asking a
question regarding ammunition in any gunshop[ in NZ, why so on your site?

How do you verufy that a licence is correct? Recently a friend input his
number incorrectly and you locked his account, how did you know it was
incorrect?

Do you have access to the police database to verify these numbers?

I look forward to your answers to these questions and until I get a
satisfactory and reasonable answer I will be urging all my friends and
associates, who shoot, to refrain from using your site due to secutity
issues.

Thanks

Chris

__________________________________________________ ______

Dear Chris,

Thanks for contacting us.

We now require members to enter a valid firearms license when bidding on or buying firearms related items. We have this policy in place to prevent the unregulated exchange and sale of firearms and ammunition.

Naturally given the nature of the items that are being traded we feel that the requirement to enter a valid firearms alert is not unreasonable.

We don't know your firearms licence number and I cannot comment on your friend's situation however it is easy to spot when someone does not have a firearms licence number or is clearly attempting to circumvent the request process. Unfortunately I cannot provide more information in response to your question or I would compromise our site security processes and render them useless.

If you have further questions regarding this issue please reply and we will answer your email as soon as possible.

Regards,

Robyn

Trade Me Support
http://www.trademe.co.nz

**************************************************

___________________________________


So it is easy to spot a false firearms certificate number.

The only way they can do this is by having access to the police database

for example if my licence was

T502324 and I input T502135

How would they know it was a false number?

The police tell them thats how. Its got to be the only way.

If this is the case then the police are as guilty or more so than Trade Me as they are giving access to what is supposed to be secure information.

So how do we find out? How do we make the police divulge how and why they are allowing access to this information?

I dont know.

Open toi suggestions.

[ManDownUnder]

I dont know.

Open toi suggestions.

Official Information Act perhaps (I don't know if this is covered though).

The other thought that strikes me is if the License numbers have an inbuilt encryption or checksum, but it would surprise me if the cops released that know how to anyone non govt? Maybe they compiled up some library with a function that when called returns "Valid" or "Invalid"?

Who knows. I do know that I'm probably not going to be privy to it meaning someone that will be is needed - hence my call to the Privacy Commissioner.

I'm interested in the fact that an Aussie site is collecting NZ license numbers though. It'd be like an NZ site collecting US Social Security details for example.

[Mr Merde]

Official Information Act perhaps (I don't know if this is covered though).

The other thought that strikes me is if the License numbers have an inbuilt encryption or checksum, but it would surprise me if the cops released that know how to anyone non govt? Maybe they compiled up some library with a function that when called returns "Valid" or "Invalid"?

Who knows. I do know that I'm probably not going to be privy to it meaning someone that will be is needed - hence my call to the Privacy Commissioner.

I'm interested in the fact that an Aussie site is collecting NZ license numbers though. It'd be like an NZ site collecting US Social Security details for example.

I have posted my question and the answer to the NSA site.

Apparently richard has also been stopped from bidding on firearms. Less than you MDU, I understand you were locked out.

I didnt realise that it was a foriegn business. i remember now it was sold to the Aussies. Can we bring in the Foreign Ministry and national security into it?

Giving out information that may jepordise the secutiry of a NZ citizen to a foriegn nation must be illegal.

[Swoop]

There will be an announcement from the police, to the public at large, describing how, at great personal danger and with only the thought of the safety of the public in their mind, they have just taken over 100 illegal firearms off the criminal market, thereby making life safer for all of us.

This is how the statistics are fudged

Just remember that they ALL had those naughty free-standing pistol grips.
Which is quite appropriate since they are pistols.

[Mr Merde]

I have just sent the following er-mail to the Department of Foreign Affairs , Trade and Industry.

I'll post heir reply if they bother to send one.

___________________________

Dear Sir\Madam,

I am not sure if it is too you that I refer this issue to or not but I do feel that it is a matter that must be looked into.

I have used the website Trade Me now for a number of years. I do this to assist in purchasing equipment for my chosen sport which happens to be shooting.

Lately this website has been gathering the Firearms certificate numbers of those bidding on firearms. They also have started insisting that this infomation be provided when asking questions.

They seem to know when a wrong number has been input and take the action of locking your account when this has been done.

According to NZ law it is the responsibility of the seller to ensure that the purchaser has a valid fireearms certificate. Not the middle man.

What worries me is that they are able to determine if a number is vadid otr not. the only way i can see this being done is if they have an arrangemewnt with the NZ Police. This, if correct, is a blatant disregard to the privacy laws of NZ.

The other thing that worries me is that Trade Me is owned by a foreign company, namely Australian. It then shows that a foreign organisation is now collating information that may seriously compromise the security of New Zealand citizens going about their lawful actiuvities. If in fact they are doing so with the assistance of the Police Force of Nz then surely this is a breach of National security.

I look forward to your reply

Chris Breen

[sAsLEX]

Just remember that they ALL had those naughty free-standing pistol grips.
Which is quite appropriate since they are pistols.

ahhh that would be military pattern free standing pistol grips, remembering that the police have determined that the long held internationally recognised term military pattern actually means "anything we think looks a little bad"



ps anyone got a E cat safe for sale ?

[jono035]

That was another incredibly fun afternoon at Chris' range, thanks again mate!

The M1 carbine and the .308 Marlin lever were interesting wee beasties to have a pop with as were all the others. Thanks a lot guys.

Indy: Where did you say you got the Lee reloading kit from for $250? At that price it'd be rude not to really, and even if I end up ultimately with a Dillon 550 or Lee loadmaster or something it looks like a good way to get started...

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy: Where did you say you got the Lee reloading kit from for $250? At that price it'd be rude not to really, and even if I end up ultimately with a Dillon 550 or Lee loadmaster or something it looks like a good way to get started...

Got the Kit from reloaders down in Onehunga

Cheers again Chris, great to catch up

-Indy

[wbks]

Question for the experts: Why are rifle cartridges necked, and pistols not?

[Mr Merde]

Question for the experts: Why are rifle cartridges necked, and pistols not?

Sorry to disappoint you but there are some pistol rounds that have necks and there are some rifle rounds that are straight wall

Straight wall rifle round that I have is the 45-70

Necked pistol rounds examples the 8x22 Nambu as used by the Japanese in WW2 and the .22 Jet

[wbks]

Sorry to disappoint you but there are some pistol rounds that have necks and there are some rifle rounds that are straight wall

Straight wall rifle round that I have is the 45-70

Necked pistol rounds examples the 8x22 Nambu as used by the Japanese in WW2 and the .22 Jet

Ok. Well then why are most rifle rounds necked and pistols not?

[Mr Merde]

Ok. Well then why are most rifle rounds necked and pistols not?

Thats better

I'm not an expert but here is my take on it.

Pistols

Necked rounds do not work very well with revolvers, the cylinders have to have to be specially made to accomodate the necked case. Its been tried a few times but never really got off the ground. The .256 winchester was a necked down .357 that on paper showed a lot of promise but never worked.

Straight wall cases seem to like revolvers better in both semis and revolvers. You can get a lot of powder in the case and hold large bullets.

Rifles up until the late 1870's were pretty much all straight wall. Sharps had a bottle necked case but it lost out to rounds such as the 45-70 and the 45-120. With the advent of modern smokeless powder in the 1860's (France) onwards it was found thatr a necked case generated more velocity that the straight wall powder.

To really understand it you need to read up on interior ballistics.

BTW most pistol cases arent actually straight walled. If you mic them at the base and at the neck of the case there will be a difference. There is a slight taper from the head to the neck.

This allows ejection from the chamber or cylinder to be handled easier as the case always blows out to the walls of the cylinder or chamber.

[Mr Merde]

That was another incredibly fun afternoon at Chris' range, thanks again mate!

The M1 carbine and the .308 Marlin lever were interesting wee beasties to have a pop with as were all the others. Thanks a lot guys.

Indy: Where did you say you got the Lee reloading kit from for $250? At that price it'd be rude not to really, and even if I end up ultimately with a Dillon 550 or Lee loadmaster or something it looks like a good way to get started...

Good to have you all here this afternoon. Enjoyed plinking with the Rossi.

See lever action pistol calibre rifles capable of hitting targets at 120 metres easy.

Loved what all those rounds did to the steel plate RM bought.

5mm plate with holes right through it from a .308 , bit dents from .44 mag soft lead rounds an smears from .22s. Impressive.

The way that plastic bottle jumped 50 ft into the air when Indy hit it with his 7.62x57, priceless

Next weekend I'll be burning powder(the real stuff).

Indy you were right, we will have to have a shoot with everyone sometime. Could be a lot of fun but first we need some decent targets.

Chris