The firearm thread

[The Pastor]

[Mr Merde]

Oh so true.

[Wolf]

cheep replaceable body armour

Oh, dear! That's bad on sooooo many levels.

[Mr Merde]

Yesterday I picked up the latest copy of this magazine.
It is actually my favourite shooting mag and I devour it from cover to cover. I was dismayed to see a full pge add by the police regarding the MSSA changes and another two pages further on with a review by AW McLeod.
I wrote an e-mail to the magazine pointing out the hypocracy of this gentleman.
Below is my e-mail to this magazine
Below that is their reply to me and attached to this post is the e-mail A W McLeods sent to a SL8 owner who was seeking clarification.

Make up your own minds

Dear Sirs,
I have just picked up my latest copy of your magazine , issue #114
I am dismayed to see you running a full page advertisement from the NZ Police, on page
34, regarding their proposed MSSA changes.
I am further dismayed to see that you have run another 2 pages on the review of the
changes. This review being authored by A W McLeod.
I have no idea as to when this was submitted by the said author but I attach a letter
from this author to a concerned citizen with regards to these changes.
In this letter A W McLeod declines to give an opinion as there is an ongoing court
case.
It seems he wont talk to those affected by his proposed changes but he will advertise
them in a national periodical.
This I find condescending and arrogant of the man.
I also would like to bring to your attention the newly formed “National Shooters of
New Zealand” association.
We are a group of shooters who saw our representative sporting bodies ‘selling us down
the river” by entering into discussions with the NZ Police, rather than to challenge
their right to arbitrarily change the rules as they see fit without recourse to the
law of the land.
I feel betrayed by these organisations and have withdrawn all financial support for
them.
I have joined this NSANZ as it seems to be the only group who will actually stand up
and fight for what has been legally promised to us.
Their website is www.nsanz.org.nz and I would encourage all shooters to support the
one group that stood upo to be counted.
We are a small but fast growing group of shooters from all aspects of the sport. The
one thing we have in common is that we do not wish to see the reduction in our sport
by organisations making up their own rules.
If the police are now saying that for the last 13 years they have misinterpreted the
law then surely they should be admonished for sheer incompetence ?
I give you the right to publish this letter if you feel inclined but wish for the
moment to remain anonymous and would appreciate you not publishing my name.,
Thanks for a great magazine
Chris

[Mr Merde]

The reply from NZ Guns

Chris,
Thanks for the update. I will run an abridged version of your letter in our next
issue, and keep your identity confidential as requested.
Regards,
Peter Maxwell

[Flip]

I suspect the Police have overstepped their mandate and are going to come to grief over the E cat reclassification.

[Mr Merde]

I suspect the Police have overstepped their mandate and are going to come to grief over the E cat reclassification.

I do so hope you are correct.
They are there to enforce the laws as they were written into our legislation, not as they feel they should interpret them.


With regards to MSSA the Firearms Act actually states "military pattern grip" not military style. There is a very big difference as military pattern is as dicussed earlier in this thread somewhere, an actual specification not an all encompassing generality.

13 years of incompetance and blatant disregard for the letter of the law. They (the deciding ranks) need to be reminded they arew her to serve notr to rule.

[jono035]

Thanks for the update. I will run an abridged version of your letter in our next

Ask if you can see said 'abridged' version before they publish it to make sure it still sounds the same, have seen some shockers...

[wbks]

Heres a question for someone at least vaguely familiar with how rifles are produced... But first, as a disclaimer, I don't have the tools or money to do this, and don't want to, I'm just curious, so don't worry about being responsible for someone killing themselves while trying to make their own sten gun... Why is it that there are plenty of companies that make blank firing replicas but none of them ever shoot live rounds? Semi Autos or Machine Guns, there don't seem to be any home made guns around... There are a few people who make the type of replicas I just mentioned who put it on youtube or other sites, but when someone asks if they fire live rounds they seem to act as if it's the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Thinking about it, I would assume that someone with the skills could get the needed gear and make a rifle that works as well as any mass produced one? Or is that illegal? I was just wondering because with some of the shooting fanatics out there I still haven't seen any home made guns (apart from dodgy gangsters welding tubes together). Even if it is illegal I would have thought I'd see something floating around the internet

[Wolf]

Heres a question for someone at least vaguely familiar with how rifles are produced... But first, as a disclaimer, I don't have the tools or money to do this, and don't want to, I'm just curious, so don't worry about being responsible for someone killing themselves while trying to make their own sten gun... Why is it that there are plenty of companies that make blank firing replicas but none of them ever shoot live rounds? Semi Autos or Machine Guns, there don't seem to be any home made guns around... There are a few people who make the type of replicas I just mentioned who put it on youtube or other sites, but when someone asks if they fire live rounds they seem to act as if it's the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Thinking about it, I would assume that someone with the skills could get the needed gear and make a rifle that works as well as any mass produced one? Or is that illegal? I was just wondering because with some of the shooting fanatics out there I still haven't seen any home made guns (apart from dodgy gangsters welding tubes together). Even if it is illegal I would have thought I'd see something floating around the internet

You're just not looking in the right places. Manufacturing a rifle (not just smithing or customising an existing one) is doable, how hard it is depends on how complex you want to make it. You know the term "lock, stock and barrel" - those are your key components, of which the stock is probably the easiest as wood is so much easier to work than metal. The barrel could be made smooth-bore like a musket for simplicity, but if you want accuracy, you'll need to find the means to rifle it. You could probably get or manufacture the tools required to do that.

Machining the appropriate chamber for your bullets is a matter of precision measuring and cutting and you would probably have to make some specialised tools for that as well.

Then there's the lock. Modern locks are basically a spring-loaded striker of some description that rams the firing pin into the primer.

How that works varies from separate hammers to in-line mechanisms on rifle bolts.

Then you need to figure how you are going to block the breech. There are many simple means of doing that that may be merely a matter of shaping a large lump of metal into something that swings into place on a hinge.

Bolts would require more extensive milling.

So far as legality goes, I was told that you are allowed to manufacture anything in your licence class - musket, rifle or shotgun in my case.

[jono035]

Why is it that there are plenty of companies that make blank firing replicas but none of them ever shoot live rounds?

There are companies that make replicas that fire live rounds, they are companies like Marlin, Norinco etc.

The companies that make ones that can't fire live rounds do so to avoid certain restrictions and regulations. Also in some cases (re-enactment, live or recorded dramatic use) you don't want a weapon that can fire a real round.

It wouldn't be that hard for someone with a decent metalworking setup to make a home-made gun, especially something simple like an Uzi or one of the other SMGs that fires from an open bolt. You could easily make something with a weighted firing pin that hit the primer through momentum once the bolt had gone home then have the trigger mechanism just latch the bolt back. Would be pretty rubbish and a misfeed may cause the thing to detonate, but it'd work and it'd fire pretty bloody quickly.

Of course, when putting this opinion forward to a hoplophobe who was proposing a full-scale ban on all firearms that weren't single shot 'obviously hunting' rifles I got laughed at. Tempted to do it just out of spite.

If you look into making a wildcat firearm then you'll see there are places that will sell barrel blanks, barrel drills, rifling cutters, chamber reamers so that part is easy, it is really just the receiver for an auto weapon that would be difficult, but again if you wanted something that was just like a single shot, break open pistol that' be easy as hell.

[jono035]

Reloading workbench is finished!

It's pretty utilitarian, and only 1200x600 due to (as you can probably see) some pretty severe space constraints. Should be strong though, 17mm ply worktop, 4x2 frame underneath, almost 100 screws in the damn thing. Have the option of bolting it to the wall/floor if needed too.

Now just need the press etc.

Edit: Mitre 10 Mega is a dangerous friggin place to visit, went in there with plans to buy a saw, builders pencil, screws and timber. Came out with a couple of steel rules, a lamp, a 2x2ft flouro fitting, extension cord + RCD, mitre box + saw, rubber mallet, filter wrench, staple gun, some mains cable and a couple of plugs, fire extinguisher...

[geoffm]

You're just not looking in the right places. Manufacturing a rifle (not just smithing or customising an existing one) is doable, how hard it is depends on how complex you want to make it. You know the term "lock, stock and barrel" - those are your key components, of which the stock is probably the easiest as wood is so much easier to work than metal. The barrel could be made smooth-bore like a musket for simplicity, but if you want accuracy, you'll need to find the means to rifle it. You could probably get or manufacture the tools required to do that.

Machining the appropriate chamber for your bullets is a matter of precision measuring and cutting and you would probably have to make some specialised tools for that as well.

Then there's the lock. Modern locks are basically a spring-loaded striker of some description that rams the firing pin into the primer.

How that works varies from separate hammers to in-line mechanisms on rifle bolts.

Then you need to figure how you are going to block the breech. There are many simple means of doing that that may be merely a matter of shaping a large lump of metal into something that swings into place on a hinge.

Bolts would require more extensive milling.

So far as legality goes, I was told that you are allowed to manufacture anything in your licence class - musket, rifle or shotgun in my case.

It is easier to make a fully automatic blowback sub machine gun (think Sten gun) than a semi auto or bolt action. the amount of machining is small and well within the capabilities of a home shop lathe. The gun fires from an open bolt - ie the breech is open and held back by the trigger sear, which releases when the trigger is pulled. The bolt slides forward, stripping a round from the magazine and chambering it. A fixed firing pin (no striker) ignites the primer. Inertia delays opeing the chamber until the bullet has gone - repeat as required.
A minute on google found
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6454642/Ex...chine-Gun-luty
or
http://rapidshare.com/files/11685220...achine_Gun.pdf
or
http://rapidlibrary.com/index.php?q=homemade+gun+plans

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-...e-your-own-gun

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4746679/Do...-Paladin-Press

There are others as well, right up to 50BMG rifles...
Geoff

[Mr Merde]

Reloading workbench is finished!

It's pretty utilitarian, and only 1200x600 due to (as you can probably see) some pretty severe space constraints. Should be strong though, 17mm ply worktop, 4x2 frame underneath, almost 100 screws in the damn thing. Have the option of bolting it to the wall/floor if needed too.

Now just need the press etc.

Edit: Mitre 10 Mega is a dangerous friggin place to visit, went in there with plans to buy a saw, builders pencil, screws and timber. Came out with a couple of steel rules, a lamp, a 2x2ft flouro fitting, extension cord + RCD, mitre box + saw, rubber mallet, filter wrench, staple gun, some mains cable and a couple of plugs, fire extinguisher...

Looks good Jono.
Welcome to the very addictive world of reloading.
If you think mitre 10 is bad just wait till you walk into a shop looking for reloading gear or components.

Its like a kid in a sweet shop.

Chris

[wbks]

Thanks, guys. That was everything I wanted to know. One more thing, though. I understand how blowback/gas systems work, but with the open bolt blowback and fixed firing pin as you described, obviously the firing pin sits on the primer pushing the round into the chamber for a small amount of time, and the round stops in the chamber while the firing pin keeps going, pushing into the primer igniting it. Do you just make sure the spring has a low enough speed/strength to make sure that it only manages to break into the primer as it has the still round to push against? Jono - With the weighted firing pin, how would you get a jam in between the round leaving the mag and entering the chamber?