The firearm thread

**Mr Merde** · 15th January 2010, 09:53

Jono, try this page

http://kwk.us/twist.html

and this one

http://www.stickledown.co.uk/

**Mr Merde** · 15th January 2010, 09:53

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

umm... like... ummm let's say... purly hypothetically... errr... brass?

Exactly what I have been thinking about.

**jono035** · 15th January 2010, 10:14

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Jono, try this page

http://kwk.us/twist.html

and this one

http://www.stickledown.co.uk/

Thanks for the links, Chris. I've looked at some of that stuff before and the mathematics behind it all is pretty easy (figuring rpm from velocity and twist rate then figuring energy storage from sectional density and bullet rpm). I was more looking for a table of required bullet rpm for stability for different caliber/design/weight bullets to figure out what twists were minimum for a 1000fps subsonic load which is pretty dependent on the individual bullet.

I found the table again at http://feistyrooster.com/300x221/300x221faq.html but it was all jacketed bullets which I hadn't noticed previously.

**wbks** · 15th January 2010, 17:06

So I just found out about the "bump firing" technique which I had never heard of... Any of you ever try that? It's probably a bit pointless with 5 round mags in NZ, but looks like a laugh with an SKS or AK providing you don't do it much or are very wealthy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX3io...eature=related Must be within the same firing rate as their fully auto versions within a few milliseconds? Can't be too accurate, though

**ManDownUnder** · 15th January 2010, 19:51

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Exactly what I have been thinking about.

I am mindful (and respecting) possible export challenges associated with brass so I don't expect anything that compromises family trusts...

That said... WHEN IS THE SHIPMENT? I have big wants

**jono035** · 15th January 2010, 20:14

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

I am mindful (and respecting) possible export challenges associated with brass so I don't expect anything that compromises family trusts...

That said... WHEN IS THE SHIPMENT? I have big wants

As I understand there is no 'export challenges' with respect to brass or projectiles, they can just stick em in the mail and away they go. Same thing with reloading gear (nobody has been able to confirm this fits with bullet molds too).

**jono035** · 15th January 2010, 20:22

There is a guy on Tardeme selling a scoped mini-14 for $1150. He is in Kerikeri (not far from my parents) and won't sell without sighting the persons FAL. Could be interesting as a starting point for a semi-auto .300 whisper. He is pretty unlikely to find anyone willing to travel to Kerikeri just to pick up a cheapish mini-14. I don't know what a decent price for them is, but it seems cheap enough. Apparently about 100 rounds through it from brand new.

If anyone is interested in that let me know, I'll get my dad to collect it and send it down.

Edit: Just posted this on the NSA website and figured I would cross-post here, too, for anyone who is interested.

http://www.gunfacts.info/

That website has an interesting .pdf document that used to be linked to from the central shooters website. It has quite a few comments in rebuttal to many of the claims that I'm sure we've all heard/read before with some quite thorough referencing.

There are a few points that reference newspaper articles which may not make them particularly authoritative, but it is an interesting read anyway.

Some highlights:

"Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries."
From a report published by the Dutch Ministry of Justice

"In the UK, firearm use in crimes has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned."
British Home Office figures reported by BBC news

"Handguns were used in 3,685 offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40%. It is interesting to note:
• Of the 20 areas with the lowest number of legal firearms, 10 had an above average level of “gun crime.”
• Of the 20 areas with the highest levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average."
Centre for Defense Studies at King's College in London

"In Australia, crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics show a dramatic increase in criminal activity. In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20%. From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
• Gun murders up 19%
• Armed robbery up 69%
• Home invasions up 21%
The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation:
• Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
• Firearm-related deaths fell 50%"
Separate reports from The Australian Bureau of Statistics and The Australian Institute of Criminology

**Mr Merde** · 18th January 2010, 08:07

Jono,

300 Whisper Brass

Reply to an e-mail I sent to SSK Industries
-----------------------
Chris,

Yes, we do have head stamped 300 Whisper cases ($48.00 per 100 pieces). We are unable to ship to New Zealand. You would need to go through an exporter. You may contact: Worldwide Sports @ 412-278-4200.

Thank You,
Tammy/SSK

**Wolf** · 18th January 2010, 08:43

Any news on when there's going to be a final get-together and shoot at the Cliff Range, Chris?

**jono035** · 18th January 2010, 09:29

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Jono,

300 Whisper Brass

Reply to an e-mail I sent to SSK Industries
-----------------------
Chris,

Yes, we do have head stamped 300 Whisper cases ($48.00 per 100 pieces). We are unable to ship to New Zealand. You would need to go through an exporter. You may contact: Worldwide Sports @ 412-278-4200.

Thank You,
Tammy/SSK

That's not half bad, 75c per case before shipping...

That company appears to be Worldwide Sports Network, http://www.worldwidesportsnetwork.com/

I found the Clymer Manufacturing page and looked at their prices for barrel reamers, they have a .30/221 Clymer Whisper (which I assume is the same as a .300 whisper given the name trademark randomness) for USD$160 but interestingly they will also make wildcat barrel reamers for USD$170. They also mentioned that those reamers could be sent somewhere to make a set of custom reloading dies although I don't have a price for that yet. This hatched the idea that a whisper type cartridge could be made from pretty much any action or cartridge which made me wonder if you could do it with a SMLE action.
I joined up to the cast boolits forum and said hi, got a message back from a guy in Auckland who is making up a Lee Enfield for shooting 245gr cast bullets at subsonic speeds. Have sent a couple of messages back and forth about the possibility of using a shortened .303 brit case with the same bullet diameter etc. and using existing lee enfield barrels simply by shortening the barrel by half a chamber length at the chamber end, re-cutting the chamber (with a reamer or lathe). The re-cut chamber and crown might bring up accuracy a little, the smaller more powder efficient cartridge would be better for subsonic loads (less powder, easier to suppress) and the shorter cartridge with the longer bullets should fit fine in the magazine...
I'm not sure how this would all work out in terms of making the brass... If the original case taper was kept then the resizing could be done in the original dies, but they couldn't be used to push the shoulder back. An existing .303 die could possibly be shortened then bored in the lathe and polished smooth...

If anyone has any opinions on this at all then let me know. I'm intrigued by the idea a bit because I'd love to try out some of these gunsmithing techniques myself and I have access to a metal lathe. I also like the idea of re-purposing the cheap and common lee enfields, giving them a new lease on life if you will...

Edit: Also, as I see it, if the thing is going to be dropping like a stone at 150m then realistically the absolute accuracy isn't going to make much difference. Assuming you wanted to use it on bunnys at 150m then you'd still only need around 2 m.o.a accuracy for a solid body shot (we are talking about a 240 gr .310 caliber projectile after all, that's a sledgehammer!)

**Wolf** · 18th January 2010, 10:04

I'm wondering what it would take to rechamber an old Smelly for .308/7.62x51. I know Lithgow produced a .308 variant of the number 4, but I was thinking of a MkIII*

**jono035** · 18th January 2010, 10:08

Well with anything that is chambered for .303 it'd require a new barrel as far as I'm aware. The groove diameter is .311 to .313 for the .303 and bang on .308 for the .308...

You could ream a .308 chamber into a .303 barrel but you'd need to use it with .311+ bullets which would mean you would also need to be careful that the chamber allowed enough room for neck expansion.... All do-able, of course.

Full length resize with with .308 die, expand the mouth slightly with a .311 sized pin (easy to turn up on a lathe) and then neck size from then on with a .303 die?

Edit: BIG POINT: You wouldn't be able to load the rechambered barrel up to the same pressure as a .308 so you probably wouldn't get any real advantage over a .303 anyway... The actual .308 lee enfields appear to be made in india with barrels specifically designed to handle .308 pressures.

**jono035** · 18th January 2010, 10:38

Just found this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=14415

Kiwi guy with a Lee Enfield chambered for '.303 Pygmy' which seems to be precisely what my idea was. Might see if I can get some dimensions off him...

**scumdog** · 18th January 2010, 16:12

An Aussie company called Myra made all manner of 303 wildcats back in the 70's.

Got a 303/250 and 303/243 etc in my cartridge collection.a

**Wolf** · 18th January 2010, 16:35

Originally Posted by jono035

Well with anything that is chambered for .303 it'd require a new barrel as far as I'm aware. The groove diameter is .311 to .313 for the .303 and bang on .308 for the .308...

You could ream a .308 chamber into a .303 barrel but you'd need to use it with .311+ bullets which would mean you would also need to be careful that the chamber allowed enough room for neck expansion.... All do-able, of course.

Full length resize with with .308 die, expand the mouth slightly with a .311 sized pin (easy to turn up on a lathe) and then neck size from then on with a .303 die?

Edit: BIG POINT: You wouldn't be able to load the rechambered barrel up to the same pressure as a .308 so you probably wouldn't get any real advantage over a .303 anyway... The actual .308 lee enfields appear to be made in india with barrels specifically designed to handle .308 pressures.

Thanks for all that. There was the L42A1 - modded Mk4 made in Middlesex according to Jane's. Might just have to make do