The firearm thread

[jono035]

Just heard from the guy with the .303 pygmy. Apparently he is using custom Lee dies for the forming operations. He also verified that the chamber is made in an existing barrel by setting it back and re-cutting the chamber (he has the only reamer). He offered to lend it to me if I was interested so I have a path to my own .303 pygmy now.

It looks like I have been thoroughly beaten to my awesome idea and just as I was getting to like the idea of getting to name a round, too! Bah. Oh well, time to find myself a couple of cheap Lee Enfields to play with.

[jono035]

Just bought a Lee Enfield No 1 mk iii off trademe. Have been discussing plans with another guy and we have decided to go our own route with wildcatting the .303. Same idea though but doing it our own way.

[Mr Merde]

Wildcat/Improved Cartridge Specifications done on the .303 case
Meredith 303/22
22/303 Varmint-R (22 Varmint-R)
22 Wasp
22/303 Sprinter
22/303 (22 Rocket - 22-4000)
22/303 Epps
22/303 British Improved 40
220/303 British
243/303 (6mm/303 British)
6mm/303 Epps
25/303 British
25/303 Epps
6.5/303 Epps
270/303
270/303 Epps
7mm/303 British
7mm/303 Epps (7mm/303 British Improved)
7.7x54mm Rimmed
303 ICL Improved
ICBM
303 Epps Improved (303 British Improved)
8mm/303 Epps
338/303 Epps
338 JDJ
35/303 Epps
375/303 Epps

Note the 338 JDJ is there.

[jono035]

Yeah, I've looked at the majority of those and couldn't find anything that was what we are after. They are almost all using different caliber bullets which means a re-barrel would be required or blowing out the shoulder/body to increase case capacity to get more velocity.

The .303 definitely has a long history of people wildcatting it, but there is nothing that fits what we're after so we're going it alone.

[Mr Merde]

So basically we are looking at making a .303 short.

Cutting down the brass, reshaping to as near the original throat dimensions, thereby allowing us to load to subsonic with heavy bullets.

One of my reloading books at home "Hatchers Notebook" has a lot of information that may be pertinant to this quest. I'll have a look when I get a chance tonight.

All the above wildcat rounds all seem to be supersonic. Is the 338JDJ the Whisper variant? Not sure myself.

[jono035]

I don't know, it might be a whisper (I didn't look at that one because it was a different bullet diameter).

Yeah, basically a .303 short, possibly changing the body taper angle a bit and trying to keep the neck/shoulder dimensions the same to allow the chamber to be made without a reamer.

[Mr Merde]

303 British Cartridge Specifications

Looking at the case at the head the dia is .455, the beginning of the shoulder is .393
There is going to much more of an accute angle to a shorter case

[jono035]

The numbers that I had been working off were .460 for the head diameter and .401 for the shoulder diameter.

It would be possible to keep the case taper the same if needed, but that would make machining the chamber harder.

It's a trade off between difficulty forming brass and difficulty chambering the barrel. I'm hoping to keep the barrel chambering as simple as possible for the moment.

[Mr Merde]

So we shorten the brass, reform the shoulder and neck. The chamber will be cut back and the new angle cut into the chamber. Thereby allowing the .303 short to be loaded without havin gto ream the chamber for the shoulder or neck size ( I know what I am trying to say, hope its coming out ok). Will need to check the headspace for correct clearance.

I can see this being an interesting project.

As to loading. What bullet size are we looking at? Having your rough drawings I can probably work out what powder we need and how much we need to load, with the help of Hatchers Notebook.

Will need to work out the capacity of the case by avopourous volume (Think thats what it is called.) From there we spec ify the bullet weight andf the expected velocity (sub sonic). This will give us a range of powders that we may be able to use. Then its down to experimentation as to which works best.

[jono035]

Yeah, I get what you mean. If we don't have to touch the shoulder/neck then we won't need a reamer, yeah. The headspace is done off the rim, which is the fantastic part about this. As long as the cartridge chambers fully and has enough neck clearance to release the bullet, the worst that can happen is the brass gets fireformed to the chamber!

Bullet weight is basically anything cast up to around 260gr preferably, but may end up being less than that simply by virtue of the barrel twist rate.

Case volume should be around 1.6mL for the new taper or 1.8mL for the old taper, depending on brass thickness.

I don't know how this compares to the .300 whisper, but to a certain extent we should be able to piggy-back off some of its load data as a general indication.

[Mr Merde]

We are obviously going to have to cut the brass down.

Then we will need forming dies to create the neck and shoulder ???????

Neck resizing would bew ok onece fired. Universal depriming die to decap,

Fast powder.

As we are talking suppressed round here what length barrel ?

We would want all the powder to burn in that length.

Integral suppressor rather than a removable version ( similar to De Lisle)

Magazine would have to be addapted to the new cartridge.

ANy difference in the Lee Enfield or SMLE action and the P14. Thinking hwere about the length of stroke of the bolt.

I'm rambling I know

[jono035]

We are obviously going to have to cut the brass down.

Then we will need forming dies to create the neck and shoulder ???????

Neck resizing would bew ok onece fired. Universal depriming die to decap,

Fast powder.

As we are talking suppressed round here what length barrel ?

We would want all the powder to burn in that length.

Integral suppressor rather than a removable version ( similar to De Lisle)

Magazine would have to be addapted to the new cartridge.

ANy difference in the Lee Enfield or SMLE action and the P14. Thinking hwere about the length of stroke of the bolt.

I'm rambling I know

Yep, we'll need to cut the brass.
The guy I've been talking to has already done a successful forming operation using some home-made dies, he assures me it's very easy to make them. Failing that, steel .303 brit dies could be bored out.
Universal decapping die or home-made die threaded to accept an existing decapping stem.
Fast powder. Shotgun/fast pistol ideally, something similar to 'The Load', although our case capacity will be too small for that particular one.
Suppressed round, barrel length whatever you want but I'm thinking 15-17".
With a small charge of fast powder and a heavy bullet, it'll all burn no worries.
I'm going to make an integral suppressor, but it wouldn't need to be this way.
Magazine should be fine according to this other guy, he's tested a few lengths.
No idea about differences there.
Yep, but rambling is more normal mode of operation as well!

Perhaps some e-mails would save spamming the other kiwibikers

[Mr Merde]

e-mails a go but I did think that some of the others may have come back with some input. Brainstorming works best when ideas come from as many sources as possible.

Nothing is discounted, nothing discarded until you sit down and start working on the feasibilty of each.

Come on boys and girls, help us out here.

Chris

[scumdog]

e-mails a go but I did think that some of the others may have come back with some input. Brainstorming works best when ideas come from as many sources as possible.

Nothing is discounted, nothing discarded until you sit down and start working on the feasibilty of each.

Come on boys and girls, help us out here.

Chris

OK, go the other way - shorten the case by ? (at the shoulder?) and then neck it to suit 44 or similar, thread an (old) 44 barrel for the Lee-Enfield action and rechamber accordingly.

I suppose it would be like a Cassull in 44 but longer?

[jono035]

OK, go the other way - shorten the case by ? (at the shoulder?) and then neck it to suit 44 or similar, thread an (old) 44 barrel for the Lee-Enfield action and rechamber accordingly.

I suppose it would be like a Cassull in 44 but longer?

You can use a LE bolt with a .44 magnum case anyway, not sure about the magazine but you should be able to take a .44 magnum barrel and fit it straight to the action.