The firearm thread

[TheDemonLord]

That was very interesting. In fact it's exactly what I thought you were doing. Ignore all that, it's complete bollocks of course.
Once again, just read the words I wrote.

Which was a comparison, related to Firearms, between the US and NZ, correct?

In response to Jason's comment, yes?

And implicit in that comparison in the manner you made it, whether you like it or not, is an idea that Less guns = more safety.

If you believe that to be true, then you should hand in your licence, because that would make NZ Safer.

If you don't believe it then why make the comparison...

[FJRider]

This is an interesting comment - the question for me would come down to Negligence.

Let's say someone pulls up to a shopping mall, keys in the truck, doors unlocked and a Rifle sat on the dashboard and someone swipes the rifle - should they be charged? I'd say yes.

Compare that with 99.99% of licenced firearm owners who would keep their rifle in a case in the boot or back of the car, possibly with something on top of it. The Car locked etc. and should they need to leave their vehicle unattended, will either keep it under visual observation OR take the case with them. If somehow a Firearm gets stolen in that instance, then it would seem they took all reasonable steps - if the Police could demonstrate that despite taking reasonable steps that this was a major vector for Firearms going to unlicenced people - and the Firearm community wasn't taking active steps to prevent this - at this point legislation *may* be appropriate.

In this modern world ... hand held battery grinders and cutters are as common as muck. In less than 5 minutes with one (regardless of any publicity splurb on the boxes) ... most of those "Security boxes" would be open. "Reasonable steps and Care" ... only goes so far.

A big kick-arse security box in your car isn't there to store your grocery shopping. The one's that know that ... usually are the one's you don't want anywhere near it.

The biggest group of people having weapons stolen from their vehicles were rural farming staff. Two or three shotguns ... a .22 ... and maybe a .303 or .308 hanging on the rack in the back window or on (or under) the seat. That was ... and in some places ... still is normal.

The majority of card carrying licensed firearms owners are rural folk. Anything they shoot is destined either for the offal pit ... or the dinner table.

Your talk of "Firearms Community" is pure garbage. You either own a firearm or you don't.

[FJRider]

See: .................

Which sparked my retort.

Piss on your retort.

You changed the subject ... as you've done again ...

[FJRider]

And what about the guy who was raided, at gunpoint, for a now-prohibited Firearm that he used as part of his submission process - that he was no longer in possession of?

Weapons like M16's and AK47's (and the like) are NOT prohibited. With the CORRECT class of license ... you CAN legally own and use them. BUT ... NOT with a magazine holding more than 10 rounds.

Thusly ... your guy that got raided (at gunpoint ... presumably by Police .. ??) probably had raised a few red flags in the system ... for the Police to take that action. And would have deserved everything he got.

As for the rest - It's now on the books that people can be charged for not handing in the parts. They were not paid a negotiated fee. Prohibited Ammo was not compensated for, and if you recall, at the Buy Back events, there were armed police.

YEP ... the "AMNESTY" is OVER the day of the final weapon hand in. They ALL had their chance to hand that shit in. Those that still have such stuff ... there will be NO leniency for anybody ... for possession of banned weapon parts

And from me (and the general public) ... no sympathy either.

So you'll forgive me if I think the use of the word 'voluntary' in this case is a both absurd and utterly perverse.

They had the freedom of two choices ... Voluntary hand in the weapons and parts ... and get paid MONEY for them.

OR ...


Armed Police "Visit" those known to own (or thought to own) such weapons and parts ... and then they face serious firearms charges. The repercussions of such are now being faced by a few.



Freedom of choice for all involved. Which would YOU have chosen to do ... ??

If some are facing serious firearms charges now ... Oh dear ... how sad. A real bugger ... eh ...

Absurd and perverse goes well with your usual train of thought. Nothing new there ...

[scumdog]

These new 'laws' are the thin edge of the wedge - 'the frog in the pot of hot water' stuff.

UN wants all guns removed from citizens and Jacinda and crew are obliging, bit by bit....I feel so much safer already.

Just hope they don't start on motorbikes.....

[husaberg]

These new 'laws' are the thin edge of the wedge - 'the frog in the pot of hot water' stuff.

UN wants all guns removed from citizens and Jacinda and crew are obliging, bit by bit....I feel so much safer already.

Just hope they don't start on motorbikes.....

Seeing as you now suggest you can now predict the future, what are next weeks lotto numbers?

[scumdog]

Seeing as you now suggest you can now predict the future, what are next weeks lotto numbers?

Now you're being silly - you know I can do predictions like the sun will rise in the morning and the tides will rise and fall.

But Lotto numbers are a bit trickier - and when I find out how to predict them I won't be telling YOU!

[pritch]

Which was a comparison, related to Firearms, between the US and NZ, correct?

In response to Jason's comment, yes?

And implicit in that comparison in the manner you made it, whether you like it or not, is an idea that Less guns = more safety.

If you believe that to be true, then you should hand in your licence, because that would make NZ Safer.

If you don't believe it then why make the comparison...

To call what you are doing here "overthinking" what I wrote would be to give it too much credit. Basically what I said was, I'd rather live here than there. Believe it or not that's all I meant. All that other nonsense is a figment of your over active imagination, it has nothing to do with me.

[FJRider]

... But Lotto numbers are a bit trickier - and when I find out how to predict them I won't be telling YOU!

Make him wait until next week. Then tell him ...

[TheDemonLord]

To call what you are doing here "overthinking" what I wrote would be to give it too much credit. Basically what I said was, I'd rather live here than there. Believe it or not that's all I meant. All that other nonsense is a figment of your over active imagination, it has nothing to do with me.

Okay then - let's put this to the test then, shall we?

Has the buy back made NZ safer?

Yes or No.

[FJRider]

Okay then - let's put this to the test then, shall we?

Has the buy back made NZ safer?

Yes or No.

Put it another way ... Is NZ in any increased danger from a terrorist type attack than it was previously ... ??

[TheDemonLord]

Put it another way ... Is NZ in any increased danger from a terrorist type attack than it was previously ... ??

Yes.

plus 10 chars

[TheDemonLord]

In this modern world ... hand held battery grinders and cutters are as common as muck. In less than 5 minutes with one (regardless of any publicity splurb on the boxes) ... most of those "Security boxes" would be open. "Reasonable steps and Care" ... only goes so far.

Sure, All security can be bypassed eventually - As someone in IT, I'm more than aware of this - the key concepts are Deterrent (stopping the opportunist) and the time required to break in.

The biggest group of people having weapons stolen from their vehicles were rural farming staff. Two or three shotguns ... a .22 ... and maybe a .303 or .308 hanging on the rack in the back window or on (or under) the seat. That was ... and in some places ... still is normal.

Right - so firstly, do we have any hard stats that this is the means by which the items are stolen? Next is we need to understand why people might store them in this way:

Habit?
Low security risk due to being in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere?
Need quick and easy access?

We should assume that the people doing this are rational, and that they have a reason for doing what they do - dictating laws from up high with no appreciation is bad - hence why I stated that first a community lead solution is preferable - other people who have similar circumstances might be able to provide alternatives.

The majority of card carrying licensed firearms owners are rural folk. Anything they shoot is destined either for the offal pit ... or the dinner table.

Your talk of "Firearms Community" is pure garbage. You either own a firearm or you don't.

I know what you mean about Community - and I'm not too fond of the word - but what other word is there?

[TheDemonLord]

Weapons like M16's and AK47's (and the like) are NOT prohibited. With the CORRECT class of license ... you CAN legally own and use them. BUT ... NOT with a magazine holding more than 10 rounds.

And what is the correct class of licence? Begins with a P, ends in rohibited.

The Magazine restriction also is wrong. All detachable centrefire magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds are now a Prohibited item. If you have a P Endorsement to own a Centrefire Semi Auto, you can also have a magazine with more than 10 rounds.

Thusly ... your guy that got raided (at gunpoint ... presumably by Police .. ??) probably had raised a few red flags in the system ... for the Police to take that action. And would have deserved everything he got.

It was a Lever action Rifle - y'know a Cowboy gun, unchanged since the 1800s - His crime? He said he didn't like the NZ Police. Yeah - Totally got everything he deserved....

YEP ... the "AMNESTY" is OVER the day of the final weapon hand in. They ALL had their chance to hand that shit in. Those that still have such stuff ... there will be NO leniency for anybody ... for possession of banned weapon parts

Right - and so we all know that they will be out to get a few high-profile scalps, meanwhile the Gangs will still be having a field day shooting each other, knowing the Police are going after the easy targets.

They had the freedom of two choices ... Voluntary hand in the weapons and parts ... and get paid MONEY for them.
OR ...
Armed Police "Visit" those known to own (or thought to own) such weapons and parts ... and then they face serious firearms charges. The repercussions of such are now being faced by a few.

Ah yes, so the Jews Voluntarily went into the Gas Chambers, according to your reasoning.

Freedom of choice for all involved. Which would YOU have chosen to do ... ??

If some are facing serious firearms charges now ... Oh dear ... how sad. A real bugger ... eh ...

Absurd and perverse goes well with your usual train of thought. Nothing new there ...

Yeah, Bullshit.

[FJRider]

And what is the correct class of licence? Begins with a P, ends in rohibited.

I know personally three people with the weapons I've mentioned and with the correct license ... Police have full knowledge of them and have no issue with them being in his possession.

It was a Lever action Rifle - y'know a Cowboy gun, unchanged since the 1800s - His crime? He said he didn't like the NZ Police. Yeah - Totally got everything he deserved....

I'm glad you agree ... But ... In cases like this ... you seldom hear the full story. Because Police dont like to reveal how/where they get their information.

Right - and so we all know that they will be out to get a few high-profile scalps, meanwhile the Gangs will still be having a field day shooting each other, knowing the Police are going after the easy targets.

Gangs are a danger to themselves. Shooting each other up saves Police resources (and Police Bullets).

Ah yes, so the Jews Voluntarily went into the Gas Chambers, according to your reasoning.

You have a really sick mind if you see similarities between the two. The Jews were not offered money for their time, possessions, or their lives.

Yeah, Bullshit.

All your posts generally are ...