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Shotgun Auto (non MSSA)
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Rifle Auto (non MSSA)
MSSA
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Black powder (rifle, pistol, shotgun)
Air/Gas (pistol, rifle)
un-armed
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Ironically, the AR-18 was never popular, although the action was used or influenced the design of the L85, F2000, G36, SCAR etc.Originally Posted by husaberg
See above to Pritch...
It's almost like there's a pattern here, that if it's in NZ and both people are white - you are able to evaluate the facts of the case, whereas if it's in the US and the person who was shot is black, you loose your mind and can only see racism...
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer
Geriatric hoon
No. I'll raise you:
Michael Brown
Tamilr Rice
Sandra Bland
Akai Gurley
Eric Garner
John Crawford
Walter Scott
Freddie Gray
Phiando Castile
Alton Stirling
These are just some that I recall. I'd add in Kalief Browder but he wasn't killed by Police, he was the victim of a broken court system.
The sheriff in tha Sandra Bland case said there was no racism in the area. They have a black undertaker and a white undertaker. They have a black cemetery and a white cemetery. But they don't have any racism.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
The Majestic Metal Wizard
I mean, I already included this one - 'Hands up, don't shoot' is a complete fabrication, we have the Video evidence for it - he was fighting with the Police - So that's 0/1.
Police were called about someone with a Gun, asked him to show him their hands, he didn't. It may have been a Toy Gun, but that wasn't information the Officers didn't have at the time (although Dispatch does). 0/2.
She committed Suicice. 0/3.
Cop was a Minority himself and I'll be charitable and say the Cop was Negligent - but the claim here is one of Racism, so 0/4.
This one is more interesting - and I could be strict and say he resisted arrest, but I'm feeling charitable because there does seem to be an element of profiling and so will give it, so 1/5.
Much the same as Tamir, Officers were told there was a suspect with a Gun - one of the witnesses says he was 'waving it around', Officers did not know it was a BB gun. 1/6
Had a dodgy tail light, Had an outstanding warrant, Fought with the cop, ran from the Cop, got shot by the Cop. 1/7
Was arrested for a Knife, possibly an illegal knife, but again, I'll be generous and grant this one - because although he wasn't shot, there does seem sufficient evidence that they deliberately intended to hurt him by using the car. 2/8
This one is perhaps the most interesting. On the claim of racism, the officer involved was Hispanic (not white) and it seems to be a misunderstanding that ended in tragedy. There's umpteen videos made by CCW advocacy groups on how to interact with an Officer when you are licenced and carrying. The evidence at hand is that the Victim didn't do what the Officer told him - as I said, Tragedy. 2/9
Shot whilst reaching for a Gun. 2/10
Of the 10 examples you provided, we've got 2 where the Officers didn't have the information it was a Toy, 3 where the Victim had at one point fought with the cops, 2 that were Negligence, 1 that isn't relevant and 2 where I'm being very generous and giving it (in so far as one was resisting arrest and had health issues, the other had been arrested with a Knife).
All the information to reach those determinations was from Wikipedia, not 'Right Wing Nut Job' sites. You've got the Media narrative 'Racist White Cops shoot Black person!' then you've got the reality.
So here comes the serious part: You have this 'body of evidence' that you say is proof of systemic claims, but when it's scrutinised at the individual level, on the merits of each event, you end up with 20% of what you started with. This is further borne out by the Washington Post's police shootings Database, which when you filter out those that were armed, were fighting (or otherwise resisting arrest), those that were High or had Mental issues (and unfortunately acting eratically) - the total number of people shot is a fraction of the number.
The claim is built on a foundation of lies: Both from it's philosophical roots (any comment on the origins of that Pritch?, Stokely Carmichael?) and the evidence that's provided.
What's more - we have a perfect control case, that is the shooting of Ma'Khia Bryant.
Let's do a quick refresher - Cops arrive on scene, Person A tries to Stab Person B, Person A gets shot, Person B lives. There has never been a more clear-cut, captured on video instance of the correct deployment of Lethal Force to stop an imminent threat to life and limb.
All we have to do is look at certain Media Headlines and how they attempt to perpetuate the Lie:
The Guardian:
The Washington Post:Ma’Khia Bryant: 16-year-old girl shot dead by police in Columbus, Ohio
This article is more than 8 months old
Teenager shot and killed by police responding to attempted stabbing, moments before judge delivered verdict in Chauvin trial
The New York Times:Ma’Khia Bryant’s family remembers her as loving, affectionate: ‘She didn’t even have a chance to live her life’
Relatives and others are mourning the loss of the 16-year-old, killed by police this week
I mean, I never thought I'd say this, but the Guardian is the most accurate, it at least mentions there was an attempted Stabbing.‘More Than Just Tragic’: Ma’Khia Bryant and the Burden of Black Girlhood
Two academics discuss the fatal shooting of the 16-year-old in Columbus, Ohio, highlighting the different standards that young Black girls are held to.
And all this is to lead us to the point Pritch:
Just like Rittenhouse, you are being lied to by people who you have a misplaced trust in. They are giving you a false set of facts, omitting key details in order to craft and maintain a narrative.
If you compare the case, in NZ, that you have proximal knowledge of and how it was portrayed in the media and then compare it to all the examples listed - you'll see that the similarities align nearly perfectly.
Is that Racism or is that community preference? Does the White Undertaker say 'Sorry, I don't do Darkies' or is it that the Black Community prefers to be in the company of their peers?
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
Nah, that's all so coloured that what you represent has no relationship to reality. I knew you had mentioned Michael Brown that's why I put him at the head of the list.
The officials were totally biased and presented false information to the grand jury. Information which apparently you believe but I don't. The prosecutor should have been prosecuted himself for presenting false information, I think they got rid of him since. If I recall correctly the local Klan members were having meetings with the chief cop, but yeah, sure, it's all kosher.
Your understanding of Tamir Rice's shooting is totally wrong. There was no demand to put the gun down. The car had not even stopped before the cop jumped out and started shooting.
And so it goes...
No point in discussing anything with you the connection to reality is just so tenuous. I mean you actually defended Trump. QED
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Let's put aside opinion and focus on hard, undisputed facts, again - all sourced from Wikipedia, so you can't complain that it's a Right Wing source:
Brown Stole something = Criminal act.
Brown's Blood was on the Gun, There was bruising on the Officers face = They had been fighting, hand-to-hand fighting.
You fight with an armed Officer and resist arrest, if you start to get the upper hand, you're getting shot. End of. All the other stuff you mention is irrelevant. You'll notice in that, there is no mention of race.
We have the sworn testimony, but if you want to dispute that, okay fine - you've got the video that he appeared to reach for his waistband, which is when he was shot.
The Officers on the scene believed he had a Gun (as that was what they were told by dispatch) and saw him reaching. What should a reasonable person conclude?
Ah yes, I defended Trump, therefore everything I say is tainted...
And since you're quoting Latin, that's your classic Ad Hominem, or to put it another way - you can't refute the proposition, so resort to name calling.
But if we are going to go Name calling - Yeah, I defended Trump. You've championed philosophical concepts created by a Racial Supremecist who said Hitler was a Genius - by your own standards, who has the Tenuous connection to reality?
I'll also note that there was no refutation or even a denunciation of that fact, one might call that ever so curious.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Anorak
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Houston P D multiple body cams
https://youtu.be/YMMe6djzyfE
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer
Anorak
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
I regularly see around 1.5 metres from the paper target, being used for training.
(Easier to achieve the required hits to get qualified/remain current...)
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
I don't know how you mis-read & misinterpreted that, but I guess in your world it is comprehensible.heers, all of which you have just stated makes a total lie of "the good guy with a gun argument" the NRA and its other peddlers push, so thanks.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
My interpretation of that was pretty clear. Instead of Good guy stopping the bad guy in his tracks, you are more likely to just get a bucket load more badly aimed bullets spraying around ready to do what they are intended to do.
More guns in the public, having met many examples of, the public, doesn't seem like a top idea.
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
Anorak
Your lack of understanding is the problem
You are slagging off policemen as not being up to the task of policing. As you i and others on the thread insinuate what you infer as a lack of creditable skills with a firearm.
Yet think at the same time a average yokel ie ""a good guy with a gun" is at the same time somehow skilled enough to be able to act professionally and calm in a professional environment.
Your lack of understanding is clearly he issue at play.
Good guy with a Gun.
In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.
violent crime rates have actually dropped in the U.S. in recent decades. According to the FBI, rates were a whopping 41 percent lower in 2015 than they were in 1996. The NRA attributes this decrease to the acquisition of more guns. But that is misleading. What has increased is the number of people who own multiple guns—the actual number of people and households who own them has substantially dropped.John Donohue, an economist at Stanford University, reported in a working paper in June 2017 that when states ease permit requirements, most violent crime rates increase and keep getting worse. A decade after laws relax, violent crime rates are 13 to 15 percent higher than they were before
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
The Majestic Metal Wizard
There's your problem - see, you are doing a dishonest bait and switch.
You are substituting someone with a CCP with 'An Average Yokel'.
Now, sure if it was some random off the street, you'd have a point, but it's not - it's someone who has gone through the time and effort to obtain a Concealed Carry Permit, to assume that such a person wouldn't either shoot regularly for recreation or for proficiency or wouldn't consider undergoing additional training.
Further to that, someone who has obtain a CCP is likely to have considered the scenario of 'What if it happens to me?' - which anecdotally can have a big impact on performance in a high-stress situation.
US Cops are a little different from NZ insofar as in most jurisdictions, they have sufficient rights to train privately with their Service Weapon, but that doesn't happen in NZ (not anymore, thanks Bancinda).
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer
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