The firearm thread

[pritch]

Y
The law then, was designed specifically to ban AR15's and similar designs for A Class, only it never worked.

It worked fine for a decade or two. The thumbhole stock AR15s with no flash hider etc came later. IIRC the Police objected but were over ruled on the basis that they administer the laws, they don't make them.

You are reading a lot into what I wrote that is just not there. Basically I was saying that society has changed and the population (including politicians) has nowhere near the understanding of firearms that was general in days gone by.

[husaberg]

It worked fine for a decade or two. The thumbhole stock AR15s with no flash hider etc came later. IIRC the Police objected but were over ruled on the basis that they administer the laws, they don't make them.

You are reading a lot into what I wrote that is just not there. Basically I was saying that society has changed and the population (including politicians) has nowhere near the understanding of firearms that was general in days gone by.

Come on Pritch, you claimed that National were better informed there was no basis for this, or conjecture about labour MPs.
Police were threatened with court action by gun city not long before the CHCH shooting for attempting to stop the importation of Ar15's.

No amount of "Understanding'" is gong to convince the majority of NZ that An AR15 is anywhere near being a necessity.
Society has changed its became less risk adverse for one.
the law worked until it didnt, there were warning years ahead of time there were many recomendations from expert groups that were dismissed as people were afraid of the Gun lobby.
Firearm ownership in NZ is not a right, its a privilege, As a result of greed and a few peoples stupidity, the privileges that were allowed in past times are no longer deemed to be acceptable risks for the majority of the population.

You might not agree with this, but you are in the minority holding this opinion.
Its not in the majority of the NZ population opinion acceptable to have that level of firepower freely available to all and sundry.
Having weapons freely available for a few days pay that can kill 50 people in a few minutes is no longer acceptable.
Peoples right to go about there daily lives unharmed exceed the rights of those that want to have a weapon that serves no practical purpose.
Its pretty simple stuff. Its also foolhardy to blame the government when it was the whole parliaments decision.
The blame lies with those that committed the crimes with the firearms and those that purposely sort to circumvented the laws that were designed to protect kiwis.

[Katman]

lets see how that relevant to what shes written anyone else have an idea why a right wing pom has been, who never even was able to win an election for a electorate seat alone lead a party knows better or is a reliable source of unbiased information........leading up to an election where the party she belonged to is teetering on not even getting a seat and has only got a seat in the last few election as National doent run anything against them in a safe right wing seat.

Is that even English?

[TheDemonLord]

The blame lies with those that failed to properly vet the Terrorist and issued them a licence when they didn't meet the Criteria

Fixed for accuracy.

[austingtir]

"Quote Originally Posted by husaberg"
"The blame lies with those that failed to properly vet the Terrorist and issued them a licence when they didn't meet the Criteria"

And the Tooth Monster who thought it was a good idea to make it even easier at around xmas time last year to change the rules and let him aquire the guns he wanted really really easy.


Its all been very convenient for the communist tooth monster actually.

[pritch]

Come on Pritch, you claimed that National were better informed there was no basis for this, or conjecture about labour MPs.

My comments were based on my experience. Your experience must be different.

I don't give a shit about AR15s, AK47s, or anything similar. Nor did I say that I did.

The majority rule, that's how the system works. It's just a shame that the majority are almost totally ignorant of the topic. Then again, that's the normal situation. Nobody knows everything.

[jasonu]

My comments were based on my experience. Your experience must be different.

I don't give a shit about AR15s, AK47s, or anything similar. Nor did I say that I did.

The majority rule, that's how the system works. It's just a shame that the majority are almost totally ignorant of the topic. Then again, that's the normal situation. Nobody knows everything.

Someone around here thinks he knows everything.
Hint,

[husaberg]

Is that even English?

Makes far more sense than anything you have ever written, but then again its not an open expression of your homoerotic fantasies or conspiracy drivel now is it.

[husaberg]

My comments were based on my experience. Your experience must be different.

I don't give a shit about AR15s, AK47s, or anything similar. Nor did I say that I did.

The majority rule, that's how the system works. It's just a shame that the majority are almost totally ignorant of the topic. Then again, that's the normal situation. Nobody knows everything.

As i said i know two current Mp's for labour that both grew up on the same farm one of which was a police officer for 25 years and wanted to arm the police when he was head of the police association
The two Labour MPS damian and Greg oconnor whose father was the national chairman for the Dairy section of Federated farmers and director of the Dairy company.
these two who have two brothers currently dairy farming might know something of farming, maybe more then simon buuridges paula Bennett and crusher Collins do combined

But as All the National MP's also voted for the law change so either they agree with the law, or they were just as missinformed or informed as all the rest.
If you dont agree with majority rules, just go to a country with a dictator or start your own republic either way take along Asstinkler

[austingtir]

As i said i know two current Mp's for labour that both grew up on the same farm one of which was a police officer for 25 years and wanted to arm the police when he was head of the police association
All the National MP voted for the law change so either they agree with the law or they were just as missinformed as the rest or informed the same.
If you dont agree with majority rules, just go to a country with a dictator or start your own republic either way take along Asstinkler

What like this ex labour mp?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm...77&ref=twitter

Votes to ban semi auto firearms with two days of public consultation.
Goes on holiday and shoots the same gun he votes to ban = Total tool

That said. It was in another country FFS! Just because we have a communist tooth monster dictating to us what guns we are allowed doesnt mean you can't do what you like when your not in this shithole!! But yeah Jones is still a dickhead...

And you can see at the end of the article the tooth fairy still thinks she has majority opinion behind her... well we will see in 2020 when the polls arent manipulated by Patrick Gower lookalikes and we get to actually vote these clowns out!!

[pritch]

As i said i know two current Mp's for labour that both grew up on the same farm one of which was a police officer for 25 years and wanted to arm the police when he was head of the police association
The two Labour MPS damian and Greg oconnor whose father was the national chairman for the Dairy section of Federated farmers and director of the Dairy company.
these two who have two brothers currently dairy farming might know something of farming, maybe more then simon buuridges paula Bennett and crusher Collins do combined

But as All the National MP's also voted for the law change so either they agree with the law, or they were just as missinformed or informed as all the rest.
If you dont agree with majority rules, just go to a country with a dictator or start your own republic either way take along Asstinkler

There are more than two Labour MPs in Parliament.

As for the rest of your comments, you're still arguing with things I didn't write.

[TheDemonLord]

But as All the National MP's also voted for the law change so either they agree with the law, or they were just as missinformed or informed as all the rest.

I've spoken with a number of them - Let's just say they are getting Buyers Remorse - and seeing just how badly this has impacted some of their key voting base, they are trying to save face.

[Swoop]

It's rather intersting that the police have lost 8 firearms from an Auckland police station recently...

[scumdog]

Come on Pritch, you claimed that National were better informed there was no basis for this, or conjecture about labour MPs.
Police were threatened with court action by gun city not long before the CHCH shooting for attempting to stop the importation of Ar15's.

No amount of "Understanding'" is gong to convince the majority of NZ that An AR15 is anywhere near being a necessity.
Society has changed its became less risk adverse for one.
the law worked until it didnt, there were warning years ahead of time there were many recomendations from expert groups that were dismissed as people were afraid of the Gun lobby.
Firearm ownership in NZ is not a right, its a privilege, As a result of greed and a few peoples stupidity, the privileges that were allowed in past times are no longer deemed to be acceptable risks for the majority of the population.

I suspect the very ones you call the 'Gun Lobby' were the same that gave 'many recommendations' to the government.

And were soundly ignored.

As usual "Government knows best"

[husaberg]

There are more than two Labour MPs in Parliament.
As for the rest of your comments, you're still arguing with things I didn't write.

These days more people live in urban centres. Now solo mums form a large percentage of the population, they know nothing about guns except what they see on TV - and that's all bad. Helen Clarke probably didn't even know anybody who owned a gun, therefore in her mind nobody needed one. Jacinda might be similar except for her husband's occupation. The Nats still have farmers in their ranks so they will be better informed. NZ First have been sympathetic to gun owners in the past and Ron Mark's military experience means that among their members at least he is informed.
.

Oddly Paula benefit was the last National police minister and was an urbanite solo mother yet from memory no gun owner had issues with her credentials to rule on firearms despite not being a farmer. Despite have no experience with firearms she over ruled the police and the select committee of firearms experts chosen by the government recommendations in most cases ,I wonder if that was because she did what they wanted.

I suspect the very ones you call the 'Gun Lobby' were the same that gave 'many recommendations' to the government.

And were soundly ignored.

As usual "Government knows best"

You would be wrong on the first bit right on the second and the third.
The select committee was selected by the national party and more than 2/3ds of the recommendations were rejected by Paula benefit.
the Gun lobby said (i will paraphrase) the NZ firearms las are the best practice in the world and not a thing needs changing.

https://www.nranz.com/assets/Documen...OSC-Report.pdf

Police Minister Paula Bennett has today responded to the Law and Order Select Committee report on issues relating to the illegal possession of firearms.
The Select Committee’s terms of reference were to focus on how widespread firearms possession is amongst criminals – including gangs, how those people who don’t have a firearms licence come into possession of firearms and what changes, if any, would restrict the flow of firearms to criminals, gangs and people who don’t hold a licence.

“The committee made 20 recommendations. After careful consideration I’ve accepted seven, rejected 12, and recommended one proceed with changes,” Mrs Bennett says.

Summary of the Government Response
Recommendation Number Summarised Recommendation Government Response Summarised
Sale and supply of firearms and ammunition
1 A firearms licence required to possess ammunition Reject
2 A dealer’s licence required to sell ammunition Reject
3 Dealers required to keep records of ammunition sales Reject
4 Registration process for websites facilitating trading in firearms, parts, or ammunition Amend recommendation - Do not introduce registration but clarify ‘mail order’ process applies to online sales in Arms Amendment Bill
5 Permit to procure extended to cover all sales or transfers of firearms (i.e. include A category firearms) Reject - but improve efficiency in current licensing and permitting processes. Mail order applies to online sales
Definition of military-style semi-automatics
6 Investigate the creation of a category of restricted semi-automatic rifle and shotgun Reject
Effectiveness of licensing, training, and registering firearms
7 Implement firearm prohibition orders Accept - include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
8 Codify the ‘fit and proper’ criteria in the Arms Act Reject
9 Implement a stand-down period after licence revocation Accept - include a 12 month stand down period in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
10 Clarify that gang members or prospects must not be considered ‘fit and proper’ to possess firearms Accept - include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
11 Require Police to record serial numbers of all firearms upon renewal of licence or inspection of premises Reject – voluntary process to continue
Criminal offending with firearms
12 Review the penalties in the Arms Act Accept - progress in Arms Amendment Bill
13 Treat dealer offending as aggravated at sentencing Reject
14 Determine appropriate security standards for A category licences Accept - Police/firearms community advisory forum already commenced this process
15 Secure storage confirmed before licence or endorsement received Reject
16 Allow Police to enter premises to inspect security of A category firearms Reject
17 Failure to comply with storage regulations to result in mandatory revocation Reject - but note new suspension of licence

Reducing the number of grey firearms
18 Clarify and publicise the extent of amnesty provisions in the Arms Act 1983 Accept - to progress in Arms Amendment Bill
19 Police publicise amnesty provisions Reject
20 Check that firearms brought in on visitors permit are exported or transferred legally Accept (administrative)
Additional Government Recommendations
1 Provide the power to suspend licences Include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
2 Police to improve its consultative processes with the firearms community Propose to give a Ministerial Directive to this end
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/...mmittee-report