The firearm thread

[FJRider]

So, you'll be handing in your licence then?

Why would he hand in his license because of events that happened in another country ... ???

[TheDemonLord]

Why would he hand in his license because of events that happened in another country ... ???

The same reason that people have been forced to hand in their rifles because of events that happened by another person...

[pritch]

In your comparison, given the context of the failed buy-back leading to more Firearm crime, you stated a preference.

That preference hinges on the idea that less guns = more safety.

So, will you be handing your licence in?

Alternatively, you could agree that Fit and Proper people are not and never were the issue, and agree that the Buy-back (both in terms of it's stated goal and it's actual outcome) has been an absolute failure.

Nah, you are not reading what I wrote, you are off in some far different place. Which explains many of your posts. You could try reading my reply to Jason again but seriously, I don't think that would help.

I was just saying I feel safer living in a country that is currently not having multiple mass shootings almost every day.

In just the same way I feel safer in a country with a death toll of 26 from COVID compared to a country with a death toll approaching 600,000, where almost half the population still think it's a hoax. No mention of numbers of guns at all, just as in my other post.

[TheDemonLord]

Nah, you are not reading what I wrote, you are off in some far different place. Which explains many of your posts. You could try reading my reply to Jason again but seriously, I don't think that would help.

I was just saying I feel safer living in a country that is currently not having multiple mass shootings almost every day.

In just the same way I feel safer in a country with a death toll of 26 from COVID compared to a country with a death toll approaching 600,000, where almost half the population still think it's a hoax. No mention of numbers of guns at all, just as in my other post.

You're trying to divorce your reply from the context of what Jason originally wrote.

Namely that it was specifically a critique on a Failed Buy-Back that as a direct or indirect cause has resulted in higher Firearm Crime.

Your response was to compare NZ with the US and implicit in that comparison (when talking about Firearms) is the rates of ownership and the rates of Firearm crime (one you directly referenced, the other is intrinsically linked).

The point I'm forcing upon you is that despite our differences of opinion on a good number of topics, I would feel just as safe if you had a single firearm as if you had an entire 3rd world arsenal of them.

Whereas the same cannot be said for the people whose arguments you are echoing.

[scumdog]

I see that amongst the draconian ideas for new firearms laws being promoted by the Police is they want to make it law that you have to transport your firearm in a locked steel box attached to your vehicle!

Gonna make riding to my hunting spot a tad tricky...

[TheDemonLord]

I see that amongst the draconian ideas for new firearms laws being promoted by the Police is they want to make it law that you have to transport your firearm in a locked steel box attached to your vehicle!

Gonna make riding to my hunting spot a tad tricky...

I read the entire document, then wrote my own feedback on it - most of it was things like:

"The Police have failed to demonstrate a use case or that this is a significant vector of Firearms entering to unlicensed hands"

Now, as the card-carrying libertarian, if it was demonstrated that the majority of Unlawful firearms were being stolen from peoples cars - I would first want to try a community solution, agree an acceptable set of solutions and encourage people to comply with them (like encouraging the purchasing of a dedicated Firearm safe vs a 'Lockable container of stout and sturdy constructions') and if it's still an issue, then we can look at legislation...

[FJRider]

The same reason that people have been forced to hand in their rifles because of events that happened by another person...

Nobody was FORCED to hand in ANY weapons or weapon parts. It was a voluntary BUY BACK scheme. They were PAID for their weapons and weapon parts. NOBODY was ever charged (that I am aware of) for not handing in any weapons or parts they had in their possession.

If you have any facts contrary to this (note facts ... not your assumptions) please share.

[FJRider]

I see that amongst the draconian ideas for new firearms laws being promoted by the Police is they want to make it law that you have to transport your firearm in a locked steel box attached to your vehicle!

Gonna make riding to my hunting spot a tad tricky...

A trailer ...

[FJRider]

You're trying to divorce your reply from the context of what Jason originally wrote.

NO ... his response was to reply to YOUR post. YOUR response (as is usual) was to change the subject.

[husaberg]

Nah, you are not reading what I wrote, you are off in some far different place. Which explains many of your posts. You could try reading my reply to Jason again but seriously, I don't think that would help.

I was just saying I feel safer living in a country that is currently not having multiple mass shootings almost every day.

In just the same way I feel safer in a country with a death toll of 26 from COVID compared to a country with a death toll approaching 600,000, where almost half the population still think it's a hoax. No mention of numbers of guns at all, just as in my other post.

You remember that pigeon and chess board.



its not possibe to have a rational conversation with someone who constantly suggests you make claims you never did.
Whist at the same time ignoring that fact there own arguements actually have zero merit and that they do not know more than actual reconised experts.

[pritch]

You're trying to divorce your reply from the context of what Jason originally wrote.

Namely that it was specifically a critique on a Failed Buy-Back that as a direct or indirect cause has resulted in higher Firearm Crime.

Your response was to compare NZ with the US and implicit in that comparison (when talking about Firearms) is the rates of ownership and the rates of Firearm crime (one you directly referenced, the other is intrinsically linked).

The point I'm forcing upon you is that despite our differences of opinion on a good number of topics, I would feel just as safe if you had a single firearm as if you had an entire 3rd world arsenal of them.

Whereas the same cannot be said for the people whose arguments you are echoing.

That was very interesting. In fact it's exactly what I thought you were doing. Ignore all that, it's complete bollocks of course.
Once again, just read the words I wrote.

[FJRider]

Now, as the card-carrying libertarian, if it was demonstrated that the majority of Unlawful firearms were being stolen from peoples cars - I would first want to try a community solution, agree an acceptable set of solutions and encourage people to comply with them (like encouraging the purchasing of a dedicated Firearm safe vs a 'Lockable container of stout and sturdy constructions') and if it's still an issue, then we can look at legislation...

What Bullshit. That would be just another case of making some people pay more ... because idiots can't look after their stuff.

Should not those that report their firearms stolen from their vehicles face serious charges for failing to properly secure their firearms .. ??

Put the onus of blame on those that let their weapons fall into the wrong hands.

It might also see a drop in firearms being reported stolen ... Win win all round ...

[TheDemonLord]

Nobody was FORCED to hand in ANY weapons or weapon parts. It was a voluntary BUY BACK scheme. They were PAID for their weapons and weapon parts. NOBODY was ever charged (that I am aware of) for not handing in any weapons or parts they had in their possession.

If you have any facts contrary to this (note facts ... not your assumptions) please share.

And what about the guy who was raided, at gunpoint, for a now-prohibited Firearm that he used as part of his submission process - that he was no longer in possession of?

As for the rest - It's now on the books that people can be charged for not handing in the parts. They were not paid a negotiated fee. Prohibited Ammo was not compensated for, and if you recall, at the Buy Back events, there were armed police.

So you'll forgive me if I think the use of the word 'voluntary' in this case is a both absurd and utterly perverse.

[TheDemonLord]

NO ... his response was to reply to YOUR post. YOUR response (as is usual) was to change the subject.

See: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131184973

Which sparked my retort.

[TheDemonLord]

Should not those that report their firearms stolen from their vehicles face serious charges for failing to properly secure their firearms .. ??

This is an interesting comment - the question for me would come down to Negligence.

Let's say someone pulls up to a shopping mall, keys in the truck, doors unlocked and a Rifle sat on the dashboard and someone swipes the rifle - should they be charged? I'd say yes.

Compare that with 99.99% of licenced firearm owners who would keep their rifle in a case in the boot or back of the car, possibly with something on top of it. The Car locked etc. and should they need to leave their vehicle unattended, will either keep it under visual observation OR take the case with them. If somehow a Firearm gets stolen in that instance, then it would seem they took all reasonable steps - if the Police could demonstrate that despite taking reasonable steps that this was a major vector for Firearms going to unlicenced people - and the Firearm community wasn't taking active steps to prevent this - at this point legislation *may* be appropriate.