The firearm thread

[pritch]

You are substituting someone with a CCP with 'An Average Yokel'.

No he's not. They are one and the same. CCP requirements vary from state to state, if they actually have any. Still, the psychological understanding doesn't come with the permit. The same lack of understnding I saw with the Police training I witnessed here. Then there was the Special tactics Group... I'd laugh but it was tragic.

[TheDemonLord]

Good guy with a Gun.

What an interesting set of Quotes you've given - particularly this one:

"In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not. "

There's a couple of bits in that excerpt that sounded quite curious... So I went looking for the source and when reading the source, I came across this:

Of the 15 studies included in the meta-analysis, the only one that did not find a statistically meaningful increase in the odds of death associated with access to firearms was from New Zealand, where guns are much less available than they are in the United States

Bearing in mind this was in 2015, when we still had access to those Eeeeevil Semi-Autos.

Also interesting in that study, is that it doesn't say 'Twice as likely to be murdered', it says 'Twice as likely to be killed', Why killed instead of Murdered?

Because it included Suicides in those stats.

And seeing as we are citing CDC - Any comments about the 4-6 million Crimes stopped by Armed citizen Intervention?

[TheDemonLord]

No he's not. They are one and the same. CCP requirements vary from state to state, if they actually have any. Still, the psychological understanding doesn't come with the permit. The same lack of understnding I saw with the Police training I witnessed here. Then there was the Special tactics Group... I'd laugh but it was tragic.

That was an interesting read, there's 21 states that have Constitutional Carry, but many of them still issue a permit so that people can Carry in other states.

I agree that just having a permit doesn't imbue the owner with all the particulars, but the fact that there's a greater buy-in on the part of the individual is a factor. If you've had to put in a bit of effort to obtain something, chances are you are more personally invested in whatever that thing is.

Or to put it another way:

Who would you trust:

The NZ Cop who goes to the range once a year and squeezes of 200 rounds for certification or
The Guy that goes every month and shoots the same number of rounds at each session?

[jasonu]

An interesting example. The guy was not shot for 'smashing up' McLean Sreet, he was shot when he headed for the female cop wielding a 'weapon'. My first reaction on seeing a photo of the deceased in the paper was to thank the lord that we wouldn't have to listen to, or read, a lot of crap about racist police. The person in the photo looked white to me. OK, apparently he wasn't as white as he appeared. The PM at the time, Helen Clark, raised racism as a potential motive for the Police shooting.

I know the cop in question, although we aren't mates or anything. Appearances suggest that there's more Maori in his whakapapa than in that of the the deceased. I'm assuming the commisioner made that information available to Ms Clark because she shut up fairly quick.

I'm told there is something of a shrine at the local cemetery. I'm also told that the shotee 'nutted off' frequenty and that his family would head for the hills and hide during these episodes. Now though he's an innocent killed by racist police. Yeah right.

None of which is to say that institutional racism does not actually exist.

Yeah except you are a stupid old cunt that believes anything spoon fed to you by any trendy lefty media outlet.

[FJRider]

Or to put it another way:

Who would you trust:

The NZ Cop who goes to the range once a year and squeezes of 200 rounds for certification or
The Guy that goes every month and shoots the same number of rounds at each session?

I spent a number of years in the NZ Army. A driver by trade ... but had to qualify on the range each year (7.62 SLR's).

Each year I managed at least 17 of the 18 rounds the magazine held ... inside the man size/shape figure on the target at 100 Meters.

NZ cops would be less than 20 Meters from their target.


I know of a few that can shoot 500 rounds in a range shoot ... and only get a quarter of them on the target.

Don't underestimate the value of proper training.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't underestimate the value of proper training.

Totally Agree.

Which is the point being made:

The individual who has taken proper training, regardless of whether they have a badge or not, is going to be better than someone who hasn't had proper training (but has a current Badge)

[R650R]

I spent a number of years in the NZ Army. A driver by trade ... but had to qualify on the range each year (7.62 SLR's).

Each year I managed at least 17 of the 18 rounds the magazine held ... inside the man size/shape figure on the target at 100 Meters.

NZ cops would be less than 20 Meters from their target.


I know of a few that can shoot 500 rounds in a range shoot ... and only get a quarter of them on the target.

Don't underestimate the value of proper training.

Police are unlikely in NZ to be firing at 100m distance from a threat. With the legal vagueries of target indentification and harm to innocents in trajectory path it’s prob outside their allowed circumstances to fire.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Wasn’t a courier driver shot and killed by mistake a while back by police ?

[FJRider]

Police are unlikely in NZ to be firing at 100m distance from a threat. With the legal vagueries of target indentification and harm to innocents in trajectory path it’s prob outside their allowed circumstances to fire.

I qualified on the 9mm Browning pistol. On a 25 meter range. The targets were the usual man size image. No problems hitting the target.

The bad guys are easy to identify ... they're the ones trying to kill YOU. If they AREN'T trying to kill you ... no need to shoot.

The funny part is ... the bad guys don't think they will be the one's actually getting shot.

The old ... "They wont pull the trigger" belief ... and the look on their face when they do ... Classic ...

[FJRider]

Wasn’t a courier driver shot and killed by mistake a while back by police ?

Yep ... wrong place ... wrong time. Cop missed his target.



I noticed that the Bangkok Police seemed to have a policy of keeping on shooting until the "suspect" stops ...

Either going down hit ... or stops running and puts their hands up. Collateral damage isn't a big concern there.

[R650R]

Computer game styles.... cop fires M16 through own windscreen while in pursuit whilextaking fire

[pritch]

The funny part is ... the bad guys don't think they will be the one's actually getting shot.

It's not just the bad guys.

Previously I mentioned "psychological understanding."

When the police train in this country they often use pistol club ranges. These ranges may sometimes be equipped with items that can be used as 'cover' and the police are free to utilise these. It was very obvious from the way the police used the available cover, or more accurately misused it, that the thought that they may be the shootee rather than the shooter had never seriously crossed their minds. Which is what I meant by psychological understanding.

If that understanding comes suddenly, it may be a shock.

[R650R]

How to properly interact with the police when you get pulled over with car load of guns onboard.

FFWD to 4m20 when back up arrives for the entertaining conversation

[pzkpfw]

Part of getting a firearms licence now is when the police "check your firearms security".

Does anyone know if they still do that if you simply don't own or possess an actual firearm?

(May seem a dumb question or a dumb scenario, but I can't be arsed typing all the details, sorry.)

[pritch]

Part of getting a firearms licence now is when the police "check your firearms security".

Does anyone know if they still do that if you simply don't own or possess an actual firearm?

(May seem a dumb question or a dumb scenario, but I can't be arsed typing all the details, sorry.)

There was a guy locally who had B & C endorsements, possibly also E but I don't know that for sure. He complained that he received a request to check his security after he had sold his guns and advised the Arms Officer to that effect. He explained the situation but the check went ahead.

Why? Who knows. The Police make an appointment, it's not as if someone is going to leave an illegal handgun in their safe. If they still even have a safe.