Shotgun (single, double, pump, lever, bolt)
Shotgun Auto (non MSSA)
Rifle (single, double, pump, lever, bolt)
Rifle Auto (non MSSA)
MSSA
Pistol
Black powder (rifle, pistol, shotgun)
Air/Gas (pistol, rifle)
un-armed
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Keeping calm and making the shots count is one thing, but volume of fire is another - all the time the enemy are ducking because they have incoming heading their way, they are not returning with accurate fire on you.Originally Posted by R650R
So, whilst the characterization of 'Spray and Pray' isn't unwarranted per se, it's not without it's tactical merits.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Too good not to share.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
One of the FBI agents was a "super cop." His job was to train other cops in gunfighting and such. He wore glasses though, and when they rammed the bad guys' car his glasses flew off. He spent the entire proceeding hiding under a car 'cause he couldn't see.
The FBI knew the sort of suspects they were after and knew how they were armed, yet they had no armour and were outgunned. Apart from some personal bravery the entire effort did not reflect particularly well on the FBI.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Anorak
If only they had used a well-armed militia.
The answer of course is more gun as more guns is always bettererer
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
The Majestic Metal Wizard
You mean like how Ulvade was stopped? Or how the Bell Tower sniper was suppressed? Or the North Hollywood shootout?If only they had used a well-armed militia.
The answer of course is more gun as more guns is always bettererer
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
How fast does this turn bad!
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
Forum whore
About as bad as a Chicago Fourth of July parade. The main difference will be that the cop can claim "I feared for my life" and will not suffer any consequences.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
The Majestic Metal Wizard
To be fair - anyone who can prove they feared for their life can do the same.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Multiple body cams, more poor shooting.... slightly comedic part where police dog groaning at missing the action triggers some Siri type voice activated device in car.
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
Kiwibiker
Well this makes a lot more sense than the other bullshit people use to make out the 2nd amendment is all about allowing people to take up arms against the government
The Majestic Metal Wizard
I mean, it's not like James Madison wrote about it in Federalist number 46 or anything...Well this makes a lot more sense than the other bullshit people use to make out the 2nd amendment is all about allowing people to take up arms against the government
Also - my Ears must have been Burning, because I came to post in this thread - specifically to make the point:Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.
"The good guy with a Gun argument is just a Fallacy" crowd have been awfully, deafeningly silent on Indiana mall shooting, where an active shooter was shot by someone with Constitutional Carry.
One 22 year old, with just a Pistol, at a range of 40 yards, putting 8 out of 10 shots on target against a potential shooter armed with a Rifle.
Turns out the Good Guy with a Gun argument is 100% accurate.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
In this one case. Against all the other times when it wasn't. (eg all the cops running around Ulvade, or any of the other mass shootings) Wouldn't you say this is a statistical anomaly? No of course you wouldn't, because this single case supports your position.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Uvalde was also stopped by a Good Guy with a Gun.
(Off duty border Patrol agent with a privately owned Firearm).
This is without pulling a semantic trick of saying the Police are Good Guys with Guns.
Edit:
Since I feel a more well-rounded answer is warranted - In almost all cases, the thing that stops a Mass Shooter (or anyone intent on Mass Death and Destruction) is an Armed response. Whether that be from Private individuals or the Police.
If it's the Police, there is going to be a delay between the action starting, a call coming in, Police being dispatched to the area and then engaging with the threat.
Of the factors the predict how many people a Mass Shooter is going to be able to kill, I would say Time is probably the biggest factor. Others include average engagement distance, Number of People, Mobility of the shooter, restrictions to egress etc.
I cite these factors because of the deadliest mass shootings they are often at close range, over an extended period of time, with a large density of people in a relatively enclosed area, where the shooter had free reign of movement.
If there is a completely disarmed population, then a potential Mass Shooter has the time of an Average Police response to commit their acts. Let's go with the best case scenario for New Zealand - that's 18 minutes.
How many shots do you think a competent shooter could fire, with a Bolt Action or Pump action, aimed fire - 20 rounds a Minute? That's 360 rounds fired before the Police show up. If I use the 2022 response times (which are over an hour) - I think the shooter would go broke from the cost of Ammo long before the Police showed up.
Now replay that scenario with an armed citizen - the response time goes from a matter of minutes to a matter of seconds - how many shots could that same shooter get off in 15 seconds? about 5? maybe 10? Even with the Indiana case, where it was an AR style rifle, the shooter didn't even empty the magazine before he was engaged and fatally wounded.
The reason there aren't that many examples of this happening, even in the US is for a number of reasons:
1: A Mass shooting is a statistically rare event (at the individual level, not at the national level)
2: CCP holders are about 1% of the population (so also statistically rare)
3: A large number of these shootings happen in Gun-free zones
4: Where a potential Mass shooting event was stopped, because of the low body count, this will not get the same level of reporting/coverage as an event with a high body count
To that end, if every individual or a significant proportion of individuals are potentially in a position be deputized Law Enforcement, then this cuts the amount of time someone has to commit violent acts.
There are other ramifications that are worth noting and there are of course downsides - the reality is that Evil will always exist and people who are intent on committing it will always find a way.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Anorak
You need to dismiss all stats that dont suit the nra.
like the fact that the "bad guys" with the "legal guns" kill 1000's of times more people.
The statistical problem is the only time they are bad guys is after they go on the shooting rampage right up until then they are of course "good guys" with a gun exercising their constitutional god-given right.
Other good guys are people in NZ not obeying the gun laws as they dont like them.
This is a list of all nz mass death shootings by individuals for nearly a century, note any patterns.....
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
The Majestic Metal Wizard
No, because the Bad Guys don't have "Legal Guns" they have "Illegal Guns"
Yeah, nah... Almost all 'Mass Shooters' have some dodgy history.
The Chch fuckwit had multiple complaints made about him from the Shooting Club, not to mention the Police didn't vet his licence properly.
The Port Arthur Fuckwit tortured Animals and had complaints made about him
The Aramoana Fuckwit committed crimes
The Dunblaine Fuckwit had a litany of complaints made about him
That's just off the top of my head, Pretty sure the Las Vegas Fuckwit was on certain medication for Mental issues, same with the Uvalde Fuckwit.
Indeed, just like Schindler - blindly following the Law does not make you good and MoralOther good guys are people in NZ not obeying the gun laws as they dont like them.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
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