Ditch the battery?

[imdying]

Go to The Warehouse or Supercheap auto. They'll have some big caps for use in bling bling audio installs yo!

Ahem. You could even get one with a built in digital voltmeter

[Coyote]

I was running the RG without a battery. It wasn't working for some reason and since I could get away with kicking it I just left it.

The other day it broke down. Found out I burnt out the regulator and the CDI. Luckily I had the second bike to rape parts off to keep the first bike running for now, but I'll need to get a new regulator and CDI. WMCC said the last listed price of an RG150 CDI was $760. A RGV250 regulator is $100 on trademe. The bike in it's current state is only worth $1200.

This was all because I didn't know I needed a $2 fuse that's easily replaced. Just above the battery.

I don't suggest you run it without a battery.

[rok-the-boat]

My DR250 runs fine with no battery - it has done 68000km! It does have a capacitor though. And my DR500 (6v) runs fine with nothing but the CDI and coil, thouhg from what I have read here, I might just stick the voltage regulator back on.

And if you get some diodes, you can string them together and make a regulator. I made one - I think from Zenner diodes - can't remember exactly - for a DT175. Put 6 in line, wrapped them in ally foil, put it at the front in the wind, and it worked fine - never bust. (Not sure if they were zenners, I just bought what my electrical mate told me to and they worked just fine). Cost about $10, 15 years ago.

[xwhatsit]

My DR250 runs fine with no battery - it has done 68000km! It does have a capacitor though. And my DR500 (6v) runs fine with nothing but the CDI and coil, thouhg from what I have read here, I might just stick the voltage regulator back on.

And if you get some diodes, you can string them together and make a regulator. I made one - I think from Zenner diodes - can't remember exactly - for a DT175. Put 6 in line, wrapped them in ally foil, put it at the front in the wind, and it worked fine - never bust. (Not sure if they were zenners, I just bought what my electrical mate told me to and they worked just fine). Cost about $10, 15 years ago.

Using diodes like that, that's not really a voltage regulator, it just gives a voltage drop (any diode has a certain voltage drop). Wouldn't do it that way myself, would be worried about spikes and sags too much -- either too much electrickery, or not enough to keep everything ticking along.

I've got all the engine bits I need to put my mill back together, so we'll see if it runs first before I go fiddling with the electrics

[davereid]

Using diodes like that, that's not really a voltage regulator, it just gives a voltage drop (any diode has a certain voltage drop).

No, zener diodes arent used like that.

You buy a zener of the correct rating - say 14.2 volts, 75 watts. You place it across the circuit as a load, with its cathode to the circuit positive.

It will not conduct at all untill the voltage exceeds 14.2 volts, then it will start to conduct.

The internal resistance of the alternator means as you draw more power from it, its terminal voltage will drop.

So your zener diode will act very effectively as a voltage control device, effectively shunting away power and turning it to heat.

Cherap, easy, no moving parts, ideal for your project.

[xwhatsit]

No, zener diodes arent used like that.

You buy a zener of the correct rating - say 14.2 volts, 75 watts. You place it across the circuit as a load, with its cathode to the circuit positive.

It will not conduct at all untill the voltage exceeds 14.2 volts, then it will start to conduct.

The internal resistance of the alternator means as you draw more power from it, its terminal voltage will drop.

So your zener diode will act very effectively as a voltage control device, effectively shunting away power and turning it to heat.

Cherap, easy, no moving parts, ideal for your project.

Oh, ok, zener diodes. Should've read more. Why not just use a basic 78xx-style 3-pin reg when it's basically just a more heat efficient, accurate version? Probably just as cheap, too. There are plenty of variations of the 78xx series that let you deal with more current, and in those whopping great big transistor package types so you can stick a nice big heatsink to it.

Still want SMPS goodness, though

[davereid]

Yep, you could absolutely do that, and I'm sure it would work very well. Zeners were used on bikes since they were invented. Lots of old english bikes relied on them and they worked fine until that fast, high rpm daytime (lights off) trip home, when they would cook, and shortly after so would everything else.

[xwhatsit]

Yay! So I dropped into Surplustronics a couple of times to see what they had in the way of large capacitors, but unfortunately (and surprisingly! I've never been disappointed in their range before, they have all kinds of weird stuff) they didn't have any huge capacitors available. I did buy a 15,000uF one, and half-heartedly tried to connect it up (don't think it would be big enough anyway), but the terminals were stuffed, and a screw sheared off, so I gave up with it.

However I looked on Trademe just recently and there's a guy called New Age Supplies or some such, selling a bunch of scavenged components. Amongst that lot he had a bunch of big capacitors! Got two, one 67,000uF 50V one, and a 56,000uF 30V one (40V surge). Was hoping that the 50V one would be the best option, however I'm not good with imperial measurements and it turned out to be physically massive in real life, so I tried the other one instead.

Worked perfectly! Held a surprisingly large amount of charge, too -- after starting it (it started first kick, although I'd already warmed up the bike) and hitting the killswitch, the dash lights stayed on for at least 5 or 6 seconds. Died pretty quickly with the lights turned on.

It appears to idle very well, although because the machine was already warm it idles more quickly than when cold first thing, so I'll be interested to see how it goes tomorrow morning. No strange missing down low, and combining the brake lights, headlights (low or high beam), indicators, and horn doesn't make it stall. The horn sounds piss weak though when idling with the headlights on, although it picks up when the revs do.

Slightly worried about the 30V limit, as nearly everything I read recommends 50V for some reason, but I'm pretty sure my regulator is still working well, so there's no reason it should go beyond 30V.

As I haven't got a pod filter sorted out yet, the airbox and battery box are still in place and I won't bother to try to mount the capacitor under the seat just yet. So it is currently primitively duct taped to the battery box arm and looks like complete arse. Covered the whole thing in black duct tape, so I won't zap my leg on it unawares, and also it looks less conspicuous than the bright electrolytic blue it was before (why are they nearly always that colour?).

Enclosed photo of it in all it's ugliness. My bike needs a wash, too! The rain means it gets filthy in about four commutes.

[xwhatsit]

Next day, it's still working. Started easily enough on the kick this morning, just one kick and the neutral light was glowing (for a second or two). Rode all the way into the CBD and then to work, very happy.

Came home tonight in the pouring rain (where it had been sitting out while I was working), still worked very well, even with high beams on. No misses or farting about down low when idling with a panoply of lights going, the only time I had a problem was down low (at idling RPM) when I was applying some power, it died for a moment, but that could've been carburettion instead.

I'm quite chuffed. I need to work out a better mounting system, but won't bother with that until I get the pod filter sorted out. Woot.

[xwhatsit]

Bitch. I've been quite ill for about a week, and haven't been able to ride it. So I fired it up today to go to work, all is well, happily idling, lights flicking on and off and brightly.

Anyway, get to the first corner, indicate left and the guy in front waves at me, he's pissed off because he thought I was going straight ahead. Not until a bit further down the road I realise it's my fault, my indicators are just on, not flashing.

When they're on, they're reasonably bright. It's just there just doesn't seem to be enough juice to make the flasher oscillate like it should.

Interestingly enough, everything works perfectly at idle, or low rpm, or, most confusingly, at moderate rpm but no throttle (i.e., at overrun slowing toward the traffic lights). WTF? With a handful of throttle and decent RPM, there doesn't seem to be very much juice, the lights get dimmer and horn doesn't work properly, indicators just stay on rather than flashing.

I'm hopeless with analogue electronics, I learned just enough to make my digital stuff latch and switch when it should, so I'm a bit confused here. At the moment my biggest idea is that the capacitor has lunched itself and is breaking down at high voltage/current. Feasible? However, the cap is rated for 30V, tomorrow I'm going to pull out the multimeter and check if my regulator has died (I have another, I think) and is giving more than that for some reason. This has only cropped up recently, before now everything was all systems go for at least 150kms. Perhaps rain has killed it.

I have the other (massive) capactor, 50V or somesuch. Bit of a pisser. At any rate the battery is going back in before I ride to work tomorrow, I didn't like having a possibly dim headlight, no horn, and having to hand-flash my indicators in the rain tonight.

On a possibly related note, my exhaust pops/crackle has all but disappeared at overrun. It was only when decelerating from 8,000RPM on the offramp that I heard a bit.

[Deviant Esq]

Interesting thread mate, once again I'm impressed with just how much you're prepared to do yourself with that CB. Unfortunately I can't add anything constructive other than to say good on you and I hope you manage to get this latest hiccup sorted!

You mention earlier in this thread how totally ineffectual any mirrors at any RPMs are on your bike, due to being a thumper... as you know mine's a single as well, but unless I've got a lot of RPMs on the clock - like over 8500 - my mirrors are actually very effective. Around town I don't notice any vibrating at all, and even on the open road at ~105km/h (nearly 7000rpm) they're still pretty good. Guess maybe I'm lucky... it sure sounds like an authentic thumper! I'll take a little walk around video for you one day it's not pissing down if you like.

[xwhatsit]

Interesting thread mate, once again I'm impressed with just how much you're prepared to do yourself with that CB. Unfortunately I can't add anything constructive other than to say good on you and I hope you manage to get this latest hiccup sorted!

You mention earlier in this thread how totally ineffectual any mirrors at any RPMs are on your bike, due to being a thumper... as you know mine's a single as well, but unless I've got a lot of RPMs on the clock - like over 8500 - my mirrors are actually very effective. Around town I don't notice any vibrating at all, and even on the open road at ~105km/h (nearly 7000rpm) they're still pretty good. Guess maybe I'm lucky... it sure sounds like an authentic thumper! I'll take a little walk around video for you one day it's not pissing down if you like.

Hehehe cheers. I'm in love with the bike, I've ridden a surprisingly large number and variety of different bikes since I started riding, yet this is the bike that still has me itching to get in the saddle and twist the throttle. A GSXR600 was exciting, but I think I'd get sick of it relatively quickly, whereas this bike is still amusing me every day.

The original mirrors didn't vibrate much, they were perfect, and neither do GiJoe1313's Hornet mirrors (which I'll probably put on when I do my licence). However I'm using a single bar-end mirror, and with clipons and a poor mounting arrangement a lot of vibes do get transmitted from the engine to it. I think the vibes have got slightly worse since the beginning, there's a stupid little manual chain tensioner for the balancer shafts that you have to pull the sidecover off to do. Long-term CB250RS owners apparently really get the shits about this.

I'd like to see that vid That's one thing that does disappoint me about the CB, and that's that it sounds too damned quiet and meek. I can feel it thumping, but nobody else can lol.

[xwhatsit]

Well, I got it sorted. Pissed about with my old battered multimeter for a good half an hour, testing at various RPMs -- my charging system and regulator all seem to be doing a very good job. Most odd.

Anyway, after using my brain I started to realise. The engine will always work perfectly, as the coil et al is connected to the generator through a completely different system than the lights. I know this, as once I knocked a terminal off the battery and the bike ran perfectly, except under a certain RPM it cut out, and none of the lights worked.

So then I realised, when accelerating, at decent RPMs, the bike vibrates. Under deceleration, despite highish RPMs there is much less vibes. The vibes seemed to be the source of the fading lights and voltage -- so I unwrapped the capacitor, and sure enough there was a loose terminal on the cap. So simple! Some clown in the bikes history has fitted two different sized terminals to the negative and positive leads, so I hunted around in my box of goodies until I found some washers which were able to pinch the terminal appropriately. Don't have any correct size terminals, will hunt some down.

My father told me `electrics are a bitch on cars and bikes, because vibration shakes all the solder joints loose'. Then again, I do remember him being crap at soldering.