Depression...

[Busy]

vifferman, a good release can be writing. Just write down your thoughts - any or all. then either read what you have written or throw away the bit of paper.
It's not so much what you write but the fact you have written it, you have released it.

I was having a bad day yesterday, was on my bike and was cut off by this old guy, I stopped beside him at the lights and gave it to him with both barrels (left helmet on). He just sat in his car with a slight smile (which pissed me off a little more), his window was up but just releasing it did the trick, I rode off when the lights went green and was ok after that. Thinking about it I could of done several things in that frame of mind, I could of cut him off (probably come off second best thou) or held him up (20kph) or even taken away a mirror or something. I have no idea if the old guy heard me but I'm happy with the out come.

I'm no expert on depression (just suffer from it) but have found guys and girls can respond to different methods of getting past the low spots, also depends if your a lovey touchy kind of person as well. What works for one may not work for another but no matter how silly it sounds it can be worth a try, and your frame of mind also plays a roll in it, when your really down nothing may help but when your only slightly down something as simple as saying "relax, everything is fine ..." (to yourself or out loud) can be enough.

[Chickadee]

Hope your feeling better soon V.man.

Definitely helps having a 'rant' in my little opinion.

I can imagine how you feel, though won't profess to know your personal pains & frustrations.

I have a father who struggles with pain and depression - he's had multiple back surgeries and is in constant pain. Basically they put titanium rods in his back which he found worked until they bent. Now he gets bone growths into his nerves in his spine. He's been to 'pain management' classes and on various med's which do a little to ease the pain. I'm certain he's stuggled with depression & dark thoughts when you're in the world of pain. I think he's a hero for keeping going. Father of three and grandfather of two. Poor guys only 48 and has been off work most of his working life due to the back injury (he was a builder by trade).

Just remember you're not alone dude, always others in a similar way or worse. Just remember that there will be good days and your family and mates luv ya.

Hope your day improves
Chickadee

[vifferman]

vifferman, a good release can be writing. Just write down your thoughts - any or all.

That's what I just did - didn't you just read it? LOL...

[Kittyhawk]

It might be a good idea to have a safe place....Weather it be physicial such as a spot on the beach, on your bike or your bedroom... Even somewhere where you close your eyes and can see a picture in your mind.

You can be yourself there, relax and just have time to think.

I have safe place...and when Im down I go to that place....I can cry, yell, scream or just be quiet and think. I see it as a form of releasing my feelings in a way no one knows about.

It is a physicial spot, so if I cant get to it I'll close my eyes and vision it in my mind.

[Disco Dan]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks...

[Kittyhawk]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks...

Pass....Lyrics aren't something I think about when Im down...its the instrumentation and voicings of melodic lines.

[xwhatsit]

Pass....Lyrics aren't something I think about when Im down...its the instrumentation and voicings of melodic lines.

Me too. And it's not even obvious melodies, like Blue in Green, it's strange ones like Boplicity that get me.

Curious how it all works.

[Busy]

"and when I touch you I feel happy, inside"

which classic song folks...

I'd have to go with the beatles (no I'm not THAT old, I just looked it up hehe)
But Disco Dan, after the AWNMR and your "mystery" white spots on your jacket shouldn't it be "when I touch myself ..."

Music is a funny thing, not haha funny but in a way that it can be taken several ways, three examples:
Eninem - lose yourself
Metallica - One
Manson - Beautiful people

The first one is one I actually use to motivate myself, listen to the words it's basically saying life is not a test run, you have one shot so make the most of it so go and do it.
The second one is actually an anti war song but listen to the words carefully and the context they are in and it can closely relate to depression.
The third, well we are all just beautiful people

I'll add one more, Cat Stevens - Can't keep it in
While I think this song is more about people on drugs it's a target we can all strive for (not the drugs), a feeling of expressing how life is great and how happy we are.

Failing all that there is the muppets sound track, the smurfs, the wombles (bet half of you dont even know who they were)

Music and our brains work in funny ways, say you break up with your partner, all the songs you will take notice off (you'd think they are the only ones being played) are sad love songs, when your depressed all you hear is sad life songs but if you listern to certain songs very carefully the song is not what you thought it was about.

[Disco Dan]

I'd have to go with the beatles (no I'm not THAT old, I just looked it up hehe)
But Disco Dan, after the AWNMR and your "mystery" white spots on your jacket shouldn't it be "when I touch myself ..."

Correct, Beatles

Yes the "mystery white stain" ...still there.. nothing will remove it

Even if you have nothing in world you can still laugh... laughter is fantastic you just got to have a giggle!

[vifferman]

Looking back at the last 6(?) 7(?) years of depression, I would do things totally differently, knowing what I know now.

Firstly, I have no doubt that when my wife said, "I think you should tell the doctor that I think you're depressed" that she was right. I was feeling waves of non-situational sadness (I'd feel sad for no reason at all, not because anything bad had happened). For me, depression was almost entirely neurochemical.
But (however) getting prescribed anti-depressants was a BIG mistake. Having a son who's a Farm A. Sea student, and studying the Interdweeb a lot, I'm sure that the brain is too sensitive and too poorly understood to sledgehammer it with some crude chemicals, and that there are some sensible alternatives worth pursuing.

Now understand this: I am NOT a doctor/psychiatrist, so be careful when considering what I say.

There are things that can help with treating depression that don't cause your brain and liver to react adversely and seesaw your serotonin/epinephrine/adrenaline levels up, down and all over the where.

1. Sunlight. Triggers serotonin production to regulate your body clock. That's why people (espeically in gloomy countries like WhingeingPommonia) suffer from SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is due to not enough UV light.
2. Diet. No - not starving yourself. Eat food high in Omega3 oils, like salmon, as the brain needs these. Avoid foods high in the other Omegas, like animal fats. If you don't like fish, take dietary supplements. Eat lots of fresh fruit and veges.
3. Griffonia - contains amino acids that are synthesised by the body to form serotonin.
4. St John's Wort: very low level serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
5. Talking: To yourself (don't worry if people think you're mad, coz you are, so what does it matter?) and to others. Get things off your chest, and don't dwell on the negative. Say positive things to yourself, and contradict the negative thoughts. "I can do this. I'm a good person. I'm OK. 95% of what I worry about will never happen. People live in awe of my giant knob/my thrusting boobies... etc."
6. It's OK to be sad or have "Off" days. In fact, at least 2 or 3 days a (lunar) month are 'low biorhythm" days - mark them on the calendar with a skull'n'crossbones so you know when to expect them. Maybe give yourself a 'mental health day' if you can afford to. Or do summat fun to help you get by.
7. Get plenty of exercise - it creates endorphins in your brain, which help you feel good. Sex is even better.


If you are seriously fukt, and do need antidepressants, try not to take them for too long, but just to get you "over the hump". It's not likely you'll get prescribed Effexor (venlafaxine) as it's hard to get it (you need to jump through hoops coz it's expensive and "off-schedule") but if your doctor wants to prescribe this, tell him/her to get fucked, and to go and study the interdweeb. It's a Very Bad Thing.

[Squeak the Rat]

1. Sunlight. Triggers serotonin production to regulate your body clock. That's why people (espeically in gloomy countries like WhingeingPommonia) suffer from SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is due to not enough UV light.

Good post viffer.

I'd like to add to this point, that the sunlight that gets made into seretonin gets absorbed through the eyes. Sunglasses block this light, so ditch the shades except for around midday. It might be uncool but you'll feel better.

PS - Seretonin is also very handy for the production of melatonin which helps you sleep. This may explain why people with chronoic sleep problems have an underlying depression (or went diving too deep - d'oh).

[vifferman]

Seretonin is also very handy for the production of melatonin which helps you sleep. This may explain why people with chronoic sleep problems have an underlying depression (or went diving too deep - d'oh).

I just lurv the viscous circle (deliberate bastardisation of the Ingwij LAngwij, BTW) I've now got, where the Effuxxor makes me not sleepy, and when I do get to sleep, I have nightmarish dreams that are so vivid I remember them and they seem like memories rather than dreams, so make me feel like I'm going mad. And when I'm not taking e-fux-0r (like yesterday), I sleep really deeply (eventually) and it's really hard to wake up. Today I wasn't really awake, and really tahrrhd, but my wife made me get up and drive her to work - no breakfast or nutting: bed>shower>car>work.
I'm really taahhrrrd nearly all the time, which makes me depressed, which makes me taaahhhhrhhhhrrrrd which makes me depressed. Fukkit.

And how come these vivid dreams are never sexy ones? How do I order one of them?

[vifferman]

I'm on Effexor/Venlofaxine and find it to be the best one I've ever been on. Sure some of the side effects are unpleasant but they have been worse for me with other drugs and not taking any doesn't seem to be an option for me either.

Yes, I found it (initially) to be better than the other meds I'd been on (lesser side-effects, and seemed sorta gentler), but (however) eventually it stopped working (like all the other drugs) and made me feel worse. So I stopped taking it, and felt great!
Till the withdrawl symptoms kicked in, and I found out it would take months for me to get off it, if I ever do.
Then I found out (from the Interdweeb) that it's BAd Shit. Yes, it helps people, and yes, it can be the best/only solution for some. But not when your doctor fucks up and prescribes a toxic dose because he's forgotten it comes in XL and XR versions and the XR maximum dose is lower. All in all, I wish I'd never started on it.

Anti-depressants seem to expect different people in different ways. I think people shouldn't listen to the bad experiences of others but should try them for themselves. Everyone's brains are slightly different and you have to find out what works for you.

Yes, they affect different people in different ways.
Yes, people shouldn't pay too much attention to other's bad stories, as this isn't 'clinical evidence', just anecdotal. But it pays to gather as much info as you can, and make an informed and educated choice. Your doctor may be a "health professional", but it doesn't mean he/she's right. It's been a learning experience for my doctor as well as me, and basically now he's said "I don't know!" and given up.
I am rather dismayed and disappointed to find out that when you examine the info available from clinical trials, most of it is regurgitation of the same set of data, and is in fact a very small dataset. Plus it comes from the drug companies, for whom antidepressants are a HUGE and lucrative market. F'rinstance - 30 75mg Effexor tablets are ~$100. I was on 150 a month for about a year = $6,000. Where they can, of course they will misrepresent the data or at least put a positive spin on it, like GSK did with Seroxat (paroxetine) prescribed to adolescents.

I am now in an awkward situation where I am dependent on drugs that make me feel worse, and where I am sure that 6 or 7 years on drugs has effectively wrecked me. I'm still working, but it's only a matter of time before I get "constructively dismissed". Thanks to effexor sapping my motivation and creativity, I am often very dissatisfied with life, and very frustrated. Is this living, or just being alive?

Still, it's not all bad - at least he antidepressants mask the arthritis pain a bit, although now I've knocked back the meds to about a tenth of what they were, I'm rather dismayed to find out how fucked my joints are, and what strange and wonderful places actually hurt. I'm just glad a boner doesn't actually have bone in it, or life would really suck.

[Busy]

Just be careful if you use St John's Wort as it can have some nasty side effects with anti depressants.
Most anti depressants come with a pamphlet telling what to avoid etc, read it carefully because mixed with other innocent stuff like St John's Wort can work in reverse.

Depression (and other things) is a chemical imbalance in the brain, the drugs just level this balance up but as mentioned everyone is different and getting the right balance can be tricky.
If I can't find the balance soon I think I'm going to become a clown so I can scare little kids (and sometimes adults)

[Curious_AJ]

the world is a festering pool of hatred and boredom and stupidity...

anyways, i think i may have to go and do something else because my life is spent on the computer when im not at uni or something stupid like that... *sigh* why does everyone else go and do things? well granted i turned down going to the beach, but then again, the beach is stupid... im sick of it... im sick of everything...